the topic of locking armor, whether it's historically accurate, whether it affects gameplay, whatever, has come up fairly frequently recently. I don't like the idea of completely locking tanks since, as a number of people have pointed out, captured tanks were frequently put back into service very quickly; on the other hand, the guys yelling "SMACKTARDS!" have a point; a lone pilot shouldn't be able to grab a tank and go backflag-cap by himself.
Nor, as I think has been argued very effectively, would it be good to require 2+ people to operate a tank (although it'd still be cool if the commander could choose to make the tank multi-player or not.) ANYHOW, the suggestions:
-Make tanks randomly locked. Larger, more advanced tanks would have a higher probability of being locked--something like a KT or IS2 would never be operable by enemy crews, while something lighter, like the Polish scout cars or a SdKfz 222, should nearly always be employable. Random weapons functions for spawn classes are doable, so maybe this is. I think that this mechanism would nicely simulate probabilities involved in whether or not a bunch of random infantry guys can figure out quickly how to operate an enemy vehicle.
Problems: How to determine whether it's capturable (per vehicle or per capturing attempt?) Whether or not to keep the percentage with the vehicle throughout its lifetime (lag!)
-Make tanks take damage when captured. It's a fair bet to say that enemy crews bailed out for a reason. Assuming it wasn't a crippled vehicle in the first place. I'd like to see, if it's possible, an enemy tank automatically lose some percentage of its remaining health if boarded by a capturing crew.
Problems: How to deal with already damaged vehicles? How to deal with multiple exits/entries?
Anyway, just some thoughts.
9th April 2005
i think the notion of a regular infantryman entering and flawlessly operating an enemy tank with nothing labeled in his native tounge a foolish notion. i have been inside a T-55 turret and had absolutely no idea what anything did. hell, i have been inside a sherman and had no idea how to work it besides turret traversing, and that is only because i recently saw a documentary on that tank which showed how the turret was traversed. i have a nack for figuring out how to work stuff (taught myself how to drive stick at the age of 7). most of the people who shout "but its not that hard to figure out how to work an enemy tank" should pop inside a real tank and figure out how to work it. tanks are complex devices that need special training to use.
Kading, you did read the full text, right?
Remember, the numbers and exact troop dispositions in FH are only representative of Real Life (what's that?)
That's why I suggested a sliding scale of probability directly related to complexity. I've been inside a Sherman, and some of the basic stuff was pretty straightforward if you had an idea of how a tank operates (turret controls, directional/speed controls, gun.) I've been inside an M1A1 and it took me a while to even figure out who sits where, nevermind how I'd actually get it to move.
On the other hand, have a look at a documentary called Cul de Sac, about a frustrated plumber in San Diego who stole an M60 from a national guard armory, and was shot dead by police after going on a rampage with it. He was a veteran, and although I don't know whether he had any hands-on experience with tanks, he was a serious meth addict and hadn't been in one for several years prior.
I think it's perfectly realistic to assume that, in any larger army outfit containing tankers, you're likely to have guys who have some experience with their own side's tanks and who could figure out what the fundamentals of an enemy tank are.
Ask yourself this: how realistic is it for an _Allied_ pilot to know how to operate a Churchill? For a German anti-tank grunt to be able to hop into a KT?
Hence the percentage idea.
9th April 2005
true. i suppose your idea is a good compromise. however, it should be based on real-war statistics.
One of Kelly's Heroes
2nd January 2004
Sure! Im in for allowing the stealing of light vehicles such as jeeps, kubels, trucks, and also very light tanks. Everything from ships (not including tiny boats such as sturmboots) to planes and medium/heavy tanks would be locked from the enemy hands. In a nutshell, light vehicles/tanks/boats are the only ones available for both sides of the war, but medium and heavy classes only for their rightful owners. :)
23rd April 2005
I don't see locked vehicles as being an effective solution. Whilst it solves problems, it also creates new ones. For example, tanks are often spawned at control points. If you capture such a control point that was formerly in enemy hands, you've got a tank there which you can't use. You actually have to destroy it and wait a while for it to respawn. That in itself isn't too huge a problem, until you take into account the fact that it makes the control point very difficult to defend without being able to first destroy the enemy tank. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time before an infantryman hops into it, and annhilates the defenders.
Secondly, I feel that vehicle locking puts too much power in the hands of tankers. See that anti-tank guy over there? No problem, just instantaneously teleport out, hose him down with an SMG, then magically teleport back in. At least with unlocked vehicles, such tactics run the risk of losing your tank.
The best solution, in my eyes, would be having tanks only spawning at main bases protected by anti-spawncamping code. Also a delay for entering/exiting vehicles, during which the player is vulnerable. Of course whether such things are possible would remain to be seen.
WokkySecondly, I feel that vehicle locking puts too much power in the hands of tankers. See that anti-tank guy over there? No problem, just instantaneously teleport out, hose him down with an SMG, then magically teleport back in.
I don't know where you get the teleport bit from, but yes. :-)
Frankly, I think this could be solved by automatically giving anyone who abandons a perfectly good tank in enemy territory for any reason an instant -50 score, kicking him, banning him from all FH servers for life, and having a huge hairy hand reach out from his screen and pull his kidneys out through his mouth.
Mas stylie por favor...
13th April 2005
Hmmm... someone mentioned earlier and I think it would be a good idea to let only non-offensive vehicles be unlocked like jeeps/trucks. That way they could be used to make quick getaways cause after all, all pilots knew how to hot-wire!!!
9th April 2005
yes, because as we all know: all pilots were certified pimps.:naughty:
Checkmate King Two
9th November 2005
WokkyI don't see locked vehicles as being an effective solution. Whilst it solves problems, it also creates new ones. For example, tanks are often spawned at control points. If you capture such a control point that was formerly in enemy hands, you've got a tank there which you can't use. You actually have to destroy it and wait a while for it to respawn. That in itself isn't too huge a problem, until you take into account the fact that it makes the control point very difficult to defend without being able to first destroy the enemy tank. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time before an infantryman hops into it, and annhilates the defenders.
It's possible to set it so that when a team captures a flag, vehicles will spawn in different locations, so say while Germany occupys the flag a panther spawns at location A, if the US captures it a sherman will spawn at points B and C (aroudn the spawn point). So while the enemy vehicle may still be there, yours will be there as well.