Remove Squads -1 reply

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foodmaniac2003

Gelato pwns all

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11th March 2006

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#1 10 years ago
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My theory as to the 'thing' that did not addict us to FH2 as it did to FH1 is the fact that FH2 has squads

Without a good squad, FH2 is boring, while in FH1 you didn't need one. FH1 also had a much more immersive effect imo without the squads. You would push with other people in make-do improvised squads, capping flags, destroying stuff, etc.

This was the sense of community in FH1 that I simply struggle so much to find in a game of FH2. The sense of a singular, massive force pushing together with teamwork to accomplish goals and tasks.

This feeling could be accomplished if FH2 played out in servers like PR does, but FH2 does not attract the demographic of players where a simple pub game is essentially the same as a clan match or tourney.

Is it possible to make squads a Server Side Option?

Oh, and of course, just to reiterate, this is only a theory...




Lt. Rothwell

Classic.

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10th June 2005

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#2 10 years ago

FH1 was built on a more solid gaming platform than FH2. I am talking of course about BF 1942 compared to BF2. I think that partially because of this, FH1 had a stronger following and base.

Besides the updated graphics (which really aren't that great to begin with) in BF2, the only thing going for it was the squad system.

Now I happen to think the squad system in FH2 is a good thing. Sure in FH1 you could put together a makeshift squad with some clan-mates or ventrilo or ts buddies but other than that in public servers it was basically a one man show (which isn't always a good thing). In FH2 with the squad system you can spawn on your leader, see where your squad is heading, or defending, and the commander can give orders to squads instead of some guy just trying to get people to work together by typing with caps lock on :p

Lastly, soldiers in World War II worked in platoons, squads, fire-teams, and what have you, so in a way its also historically accurate which is fine by me. Let's let FH2 grow and mature before we do anything drastic like removing the squad system altogether.




Johannes

France's Bitch

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13th December 2004

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#3 10 years ago

To be honest, the greatest advantage I find the BF2 engine having over the BF1942 engine is the squad and command system.

In FH1 and BF1942, you always had the feeling that others were fighting alongside you but as individuals.

In FH2 and BF2, with a good squad, you get a real feeling of teamwork, of others fighting alongside you as teammates/comrades. And if you're in a bad squad or not in one at all, well, then you're essentially fighting the same as in FH1 or BF1942, so no great loss either.

I really don't see how the squad system detracts from the gameplay at all. It's an optional addition that only adds to the teamwork and historical accuracy (as stated above, soldiers were grouped in platoons, etc.). If you don't like it, you can always stay a lone wolf.




Billy Crook Foot

I don't spend enough time here

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10th January 2006

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#4 10 years ago

I agree with Johannes. The Squad system is the first improvement made to the FPS genre in years (if I'm not mistaken). We should be taking it further to improve upon the failings of basic conquest game-type, not regressing.




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#5 10 years ago

Yep agree. Squad play is the best part of BF2 engine. If not squads, you need to add in a bunch of "spawn vehicles" to the mix or your going to have a walking game.

Squads, lack of squads, etc have nothing to do with the "popularity" of FH2 or any other BF2 mod. It all has to do with the global ranking system that is always sucking players away and back to the basic vanilla BF2/SF. My clan has been playing and running a ranked BF2 server since day one of the game and we have people posting daily about their points, ranks, etc. We also (including myself who is the biggest mod player in our group) have people starting new players all the time. I just started my 5th player in BF2. It's a real challenge to start over with no unlocks, etc. and has kept people involved.

I really think that the only chance that the mods would have would be for EA to allow mods to count stats toward the global rankings. Short of that, a separate mod global rank system would be the only other thing that may generate more interest in the mods.

People DL and play the mods for a week or two and then melt back into vanilla. That's not all bad, as many of them are noob stat whores, but it does spell long term disaster for the mods.




Brasche

For External Use Only

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1st November 2005

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#6 10 years ago

I also like the squad system in FH2. If you have a good SL and squad a game can be very entertaining, add a good commander on top of that who talks to their SL and some how gets them to follow orders, a game can be amazing(this is very very rare, but does happen). I know this has been discussed in the past but while we are on the subject. Has anything more come of mobile spawn points(Im not talking about rally points like in PR). Maybe like an opel blitz that can be used as a mobile spawn point. Then you could get several squad leaders to spawn at one point. It would hvae to be a vehicle that was prone to all types of enemy fire, thus ommiting a halftrack. Brasche




foodmaniac2003

Gelato pwns all

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11th March 2006

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#7 10 years ago
Johann├Ęs;4235338In FH1 and BF1942, you always had the feeling that others were fighting alongside you but as individuals.

That's the feeling that I think is missing entirely from FH2-the thing that is not addicting us to it like FH1. It's not lone wolfing at all, that's not what I want. Everyone went and achieved goals together.




Johannes

France's Bitch

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13th December 2004

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#8 10 years ago

I understand, but in terms of teamplay and historical accuracy (people worked in platoons/squads), working together as a more coordinated group rather than a mass of individuals just makes the experience more fun (and more accurate historically) in my opinion.

I think the reason you feel that way may also have to do with North Africa as a theater. In the large open desert, it's a little harder to find large masses of individuals helping each other; in FH1, where there are currently more theaters and therefore more varied combat, it was commonplace to have a map like Berlin Streets where everyone massed together to take the next flag. Once FH2 gets to those theaters, I'm sure the feeling will not only be replicated, the teamwork created with the squad system will improve the gameplay vastly.




Dago Red

Smack Capper

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25th September 2004

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#9 10 years ago

I too think the squad system is one of the strongest points of the game, and there are many weak points. However, I think Food is touching on something that is truly an issue with how many felt initially, and maybe part of why many did not stick with it.

In FH1 you developed a larger tactical sense and paid attention to your whole team. On top of that you always knew where your buddies were and could go to their aide, group up... or just go dance around and act like an idiot for a few minutes while the clock ticked down on Zitadelle.

In FH2 you have no idea where anyone is unless there is some hidden buddy list feature I don't know about (i didn't care for BF2 at all so someone holler if you know something about the basic engine that I do not - like if you can assign friends other colors). If not, you can only tell where your squad is (or where other SL's are). Thus if you are in a bad squad with people you don't know, or no squad at all, you feel much much more isolated then you ever did in FH.

It's inherent to the squad system that you pay more attention to only 5 other people and much less attention to the other 27 on your team. There is in effect, less community atmosphere. I think it's a net gain, given how awesome even a decent squad experience can be, but there is something missing.




foodmaniac2003

Gelato pwns all

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11th March 2006

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#10 10 years ago
In FH1 you developed a larger tactical sense and paid attention to your whole team. On top of that you always knew where your buddies were and could go to their aide, group up... or just go dance around and act like an idiot for a few minutes while the clock ticked down on Zitadelle.

Gah, thanks Dago, that's the feeling and those are the words I've been trying to pinpoint. To me, this is the big red line between the gameplay of FH1 and FH2. The loss of community atmosphere you mentioned

Thus if you are in a bad squad with people you don't know, or no squad at all, you feel much much more isolated then you ever did in FH.

This is the reason why sometimes FH2 can be fantastic (often if you're with a great squad), and sometimes can be a pain in the neck to play.

@Johannes - I do agree with you about the theaters, the NA desert seems to be part of it.