Satchels on "Counter Attack 1940" map -1 reply

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MaximillianWeisemann

I post in His Glorious Name

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28th December 2004

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#1 13 years ago

I've played this map several times now, on both sides and noticed that most of the time germans won quite easy. In fact, the only time the French side won it was just a minor victory and scores were close, and i was playing french. The reason for these "one side" results are easy: satchel charges. Have a closer look at it and you'll see how easy it is to sneak upon a french tank, throw your satchel at it and run away; and if you die don't worry! You just spawn next door for a second attempt! See what i mean? French tanks are very slow (you can catch up on a B1 while running on foot, a Somua S35 takes some time to start off) and thus are easy prey for satchel guys, add the fact that most of the french infantry has to travel all the way to the 1st flag on foot... you get the following result: a few french tanks without support getting blown up by satchels then the infantry wave getting moved down by Panzer 2 and 38(t). The only time French won was due to a lucky coordination of both tanks and infantry, and we managed to cap all 3 flags, but the german counterattack finally broke thru and we lost the 3 flags in short time... never being able to take em back in order to stop the ticket bleed; good thing: we had enough of them to achieve minor victory. Conclusion: satchel charges give a good advantage to german side: when they defend they just have to run thru the bushes and throw their satchel, when they attack it's easy for a Panzer 2 or Panzer 38(t) to roll away as fast as possible and avoid destruction. Plz let only a few of these Satchel packs on some table and change that class to something else, this map is too uneven as it is now sad%20%28frown%29.gif.




Dee-Jaý

Always 1 point ahead of you

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17th February 2004

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#2 13 years ago

I admit the layout of Counterattackrather favours satchel users. Lots of cover and slow prey.

I think that satchels are a rather powerfull AT weapon for that time of the war. AT-Rfiles should be the standard, not satchels.

Another thing is that the Devs combines the satchels with an SMG giving a sinlge class both excellent AT and AP abilitys. It may seem familiar to some of you guys who played BFV when the M60 guy with a LAW needn´t fear anything on the battlefield. FH is having a similar problem with some classes...




Gunfighter 14

-{75th}CO|Gunfighter14

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6th December 2003

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#3 13 years ago

I think this could be balanced, without having to remove the satchels. The easiest way to do this would be to give the German's a rifle instead of an MP40 with the satchels, or give the French tankers the ablity to fire back, by being able to spawn in with a MAS-38 instead of having to pick it up.




Major Hartmann

Major Disinformation

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27th April 2003

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#4 13 years ago
MaximillianWeisemannI've played this map several times now, on both sides and noticed that most of the time germans won quite easy. In fact, the only time the French side won it was just a minor victory and scores were close, and i was playing french. The reason for these "one side" results are easy: satchel charges. Have a closer look at it and you'll see how easy it is to sneak upon a french tank, throw your satchel at it and run away; and if you die don't worry! You just spawn next door for a second attempt! See what i mean? French tanks are very slow (you can catch up on a B1 while running on foot, a Somua S35 takes some time to start off) and thus are easy prey for satchel guys, add the fact that most of the french infantry has to travel all the way to the 1st flag on foot... you get the following result: a few french tanks without support getting blown up by satchels then the infantry wave getting moved down by Panzer 2 and 38(t). The only time French won was due to a lucky coordination of both tanks and infantry, and we managed to cap all 3 flags, but the german counterattack finally broke thru and we lost the 3 flags in short time... never being able to take em back in order to stop the ticket bleed; good thing: we had enough of them to achieve minor victory. Conclusion: satchel charges give a good advantage to german side: when they defend they just have to run thru the bushes and throw their satchel, when they attack it's easy for a Panzer 2 or Panzer 38(t) to roll away as fast as possible and avoid destruction. Plz let only a few of these Satchel packs on some table and change that class to something else, this map is too uneven as it is now sad%20%28frown%29.gif.

What about actually teaming up with tanks or infantry?




Tas

Serious business brigade

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4th September 2004

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#5 13 years ago
Major HartmannWhat about actually teaming up with tanks or infantry?[/QUOTE] Yeah. that only happens in WAW i imagine, or if you are very lucky on a public game.. "use teamplay". sure.. *i* will get right on it, or try to when tank drivers take off like headless chickens.. sigh, please stop telling us that.. I really doubt the axis side is winning that map most of the time due to brilliant teamwork, then why should the french have to? Walking besides a tank or infront of it in a heavy bushy area is not going to stop a hiding german from easily popping you with his mp40.. if he bothers and just doesnt go for the satchels right away.. [quote=Dee-Jay]Another thing is that the Devs combines the satchels with an SMG giving a sinlge class both excellent AT and AP abilitys. It may seem familiar to some of you guys who played BFV when the M60 guy with a LAW needn´t fear anything on the battlefield. FH is having a similar problem with some classes...

ah even for a vanilla game that was just sick, the m60 was laser accurate upto 600 meters ingame while standing still, walking around it was like a smg in performence. And with the 3 extra belts you carried plus the 4 Anti tank rockets AND pistol would make sure you could keep firing till the round was over.. ahh.. memories..




Erwin Rommel1

GF Pwns Me!

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6th November 2004

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#6 13 years ago

3 map rounds isn't justified play testing..... You know how much damage the AT rifle does to virtually all of the french tanks? That's right none at all. The matidla and b1 are virtually immune. The T38 takes so many shots to kill the b1 and the matilda that it's virtually un-usable. The map isn't not balanced, maybe you were unlucky a few times, maybe you missed the mg matilda that takes many many satchels to die and is excellent at, maybe you were too stupid to have a 2nd guy in your tank. If the Germans didn't have satchels they would get owned and you know it. It should be satchels and a rifle though granted.




silian

40 years of the Ford Escort!

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10th October 2004

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#7 13 years ago
Dee-JaýIt may seem familiar to some of you guys who played BFV when the M60 guy with a LAW needn´t fear anything on the battlefield. FH is having a similar problem with some classes...[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=The 31th Raptor] ah even for a vanilla game that was just sick, the m60 was laser accurate upto 600 meters ingame while standing still, walking around it was like a smg in performence. And with the 3 extra belts you carried plus the 4 Anti tank rockets AND pistol would make sure you could keep firing till the round was over.. ahh.. memories..

It was even worse on maps with US special forces, 'cos each class was given a Medikit, supplementing their exsisting weapons so the M60/LAW kit would have a Combat Knife; M1911 pistol, with 28 rounds; M60 MG, with 300 rounds; four M72 LAW's, two grenades and a Medikit, so not only were you able to defeat any opponent on the battlefield, with the possible exception of Jet Fighters, but you could heal yourself in the middle of nowhere.




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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2nd May 2003

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#8 13 years ago

yeah, satchels ruins the map, they aren't even designed as friggin at weapons! It should be a brit Boys class instead, or mines for french anti tank. also the main tank killers of the war, namely the anti tank guns are sorely missing here. why no 2-pounders or the french 47mm gun montoya modeled?




MaximillianWeisemann

I post in His Glorious Name

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28th December 2004

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#9 13 years ago
maybe you were too stupid to have a 2nd guy in your tank

I was the one in the B1 turret and just couldn't get rid of all of them ! There's no 2nd place in Somua S35 and as i said, it doesn't start off very fast so you'll always get caught in the satchel blast. Matilda 1 ? heh, that thing is so slow it only takes a few seconds to put half a dozen satchels on it; just need to avoid beeing seen by the tanker inside. add some 88s as anti-tank weapons, or artillery; that's how they took B1s out IRL. B1 bis were very hard to kill... but that's not the case ingame. Oh wait, 1 interesting thing would be adding Panzer 3 and/or a Panzer 4, these are able to take Matilda 2 and B1-bis out without big problems and it wouldn't be as it is now. PS: i won't say anything about the "too stupid", i'm just amazed how people can't have a constructive debate without cheap insults...




Myrddraal

Search function? Where?

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28th April 2004

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#10 13 years ago

Satchels should really only do damage if placed right on the engine cover, anywhere else and it is like a firecracker set on a frying pan at most it'll make a burn mark.




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