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Safe-Keeper

Aw, c'mon Cyan, it's quality!

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29th September 2004

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#51 13 years ago
The points for kills are the thing that gives a meaning to an otherwise meaningless game and the thing that makes players act like real soldiers.

Funny. My impression is that it encourages smacktard tactics such as base-camping:confused:.

And in a team game there is meaning beyond points. From the top of my head, I can think of staying alive, helping your team, capturing and holding control points, destroying vehicles, and helping your team to victory. If your team's victory is unimportant to you, maybe you should go play a death-match game without teams?

If each kill and death was meaningless, the game would not be exciting and people would lose their motivation to play.

What do you mean when you say each death is meaningless? That there's no reason not to get killed?

From the top of my head, I can think of:

  • Waiting for a re-spawn. When you get killed, you can't play for so and so many seconds.
  • When you get killed, you may have to respawn far from where you were.
  • When you get killed, your team loses a ticket.
  • When you get killed, your team is without a sentry, driver, pilot, tank hunter, medic, or whatever you play as, for so and so long).

From the top of my head. There are many more.

I can't see any reason why I would play FH if it had no score system or even no points for kills.

So the only reason you play FH is to rack up points by killing people? I think you need some team-work instinct, pal.




McGibs

FHdev

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3rd October 2003

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#52 13 years ago

My idea is to sort of lump all the points together. Because right now, BF2 has kills, points, assisted points, and however many other stupid collums of points (people only ever look at the kill collumn).

If we mash them all together into one collumn (so all things just add to "points" ) it should be better for teamplay, and less for "getting kills fo the sake of getting kills"

The system would need extensive balanceing, so that what you decide do be doing (capping flags, healing people, killing stuff, blowing up shit, etc etc) reflects on your points.

Ie: capping a flag gets you 10 points, killing infantry gets you 1, destroying a heavy tank gets you 4, etc etc. Basicly the harder or more helpful to your team the item is, the more points you get.

if people are going to point whore, then theyr going to have to do something that gets them more points (like capping flags, or destroying objectives). See, people are going to stat whore anyways, its just the way it is. You just have to turn them in the right direction, not remove the system entirely. Its this thing called "game design"




McGibs

FHdev

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3rd October 2003

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#53 13 years ago

fuck, i wrote a big long reply then it dissapeared...

Anyway, my plan is to lump all the scores together into just "points" (instead of the stupid thing BF2 has.... kills, points, assists, flag caps, etc etc)

So, everything you do that helps your team adds to your point score, and different tasks add different points. So capping a flag might add 10, killing a soldier might add 1, destroying a heavy tank might add 4, etc etc

If people are going to "point whore" theyre going to have to do it with something that gets more points then killing soldiers (like capping flags), because it doesnt keep track of specific kills.

see, people are going to statwhore anyways, its just the way it is. You just have to turn them in the right direction, not entirely remove the system.




Chanquad

Forgotten Hope Freak

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5th December 2005

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#54 13 years ago

I Have total faith in you McGibs! But you saaid something about kills.. will it be like prmm system?




stylie

Mas stylie por favor...

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13th April 2005

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#55 13 years ago

I dont know how this will play out but the BF2 scoring is kinda cool. Seeing the best helper the best with a certain weapon. This type of thing may actually promote teamplay. I guess to those individuals who really really want to see more teamplay might want to think about joining a clan. Personally it was fun for a few months but got painfully old for me. But there shouldnt be a shortage of that in a clan. Just a thought.




Tas

Serious business brigade

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4th September 2004

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#56 13 years ago

McGibsMy idea is to sort of lump all the points together. Because right now, BF2 has kills, points, assisted points, and however many other stupid collums of points (people only ever look at the kill collumn).

If we mash them all together into one collumn (so all things just add to "points" ) it should be better for teamplay, and less for "getting kills fo the sake of getting kills"

The system would need extensive balanceing, so that what you decide do be doing (capping flags, healing people, killing stuff, blowing up shit, etc etc) reflects on your points.

Ie: capping a flag gets you 10 points, killing infantry gets you 1, destroying a heavy tank gets you 4, etc etc. Basicly the harder or more helpful to your team the item is, the more points you get.

if people are going to point whore, then theyr going to have to do something that gets them more points (like capping flags, or destroying objectives). See, people are going to stat whore anyways, its just the way it is. You just have to turn them in the right direction, not remove the system entirely. Its this thing called "game design"

That sounds very good, i hope your fellow devs agree, and the coders can make it happen. :)




Strumtrupp

FH:STURMTRUPP4|BF2:HG_The Tank

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2nd January 2005

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#57 13 years ago

ChanquadThink about a round where noone kills anyone?[/QUOTE] Straw man argument. Each map should have a goal. Capture this, destroy that something other then 'reduce the enemies tickets'.

I'd rather have players on my team that know when to fight and when to hold their positions then some dolt that runs into battle and opens up a flank large enough to send battleships through.

Diabolos_FH2 will have a lot less players if points for fragging are removed. I play FH mostly for the points and frags. Nothing is better than ending a round with my name in the top3 billboard with plenty of points and exactly the same amount of kills (meaning I did not cap a single flag). Snipers and arty operators live for frags. I'll let others run around like maniacs chasing the flags.

Either you are missing your [sarcasm] tags or you are playing the wrong mod.

[QUOTE=Mandingo 18'']Getting points for kills is essential in every multiplayer game. Without them the game would be meaningless. The personal score is what motivates people to do their best in each battle and what gives people an incentive to avoid death. Dying a lot is very annoying and it should be avoided at all cost, on the contrary getting a lot of kills is fun and rewarding. The points for kills are the thing that gives a meaning to an otherwise meaningless game and the thing that makes players act like real soldiers. That's why every multiplayer game has them. In real war a soldier doesn't want to die, because he values his life. In a multiplayer computer game the personal score is the only thing that can make a player value his virtual life. Trying to get as many kills as possible while avoiding death is what makes this game exciting. Without a score system there would be nothing to strive for and each kill and death would mean nothing. If each kill and death was meaningless, the game would not be exciting and people would lose their motivation to play. I can't see any reason why I would play FH if it had no score system or even no points for kills. If the points for kills were removed, 90 % of the players would be gone, and the remaining 10 % would be jeep racing, doing stunts, searching for easter eggs etc.

Most games target the lowest common denominator which is very low. Kinda like music comps target the greatest audience. Do you want the people responsible for Britney Spears controlling the game?

There is a reason why we have lost most of the 'fat' is because FH does not play like 'everyone' wants it to play. Why make a mod in the first place?

Also do not presume shit you cannot back up with evidence. People whined and cried throughout the FH dev process and still whine and cry on such servers as HSLAN or Wolf that have very short tag distances. Those using their brains see that it actually enhances the game. Those without complain because it hurts their score.

If you only want to reduce a game down to stats, go play fantasy football. If death only means a penalty to your stats, maybe you should find a different mod.

Some oldtimers may remember that there actually was a time when FH had no scoreboard. That was also a time when FH had no players. That was in early 2004 when the 1.6 patch for BF1942 came out. FH 0.6 had been released just a few weeks earlier. It was a good patch but it had an undesirable side effect that all mods had no visible scoreboard after installing the patch. Before the 1.6 patch came out, FH had hundreds of players online. After the patch was released, only a handful of players were left. The players came back after the 0.61 hotfix was released to fix the scoreboard. It was the same in case of other mods too, all mod servers were deserted after the 1.6 patch came out, but as the mod teams released small patches to fix the scoreboard, the players returned. So I think that removing points for kills or the entire score system would be the biggest mistake the developer team could ever make. It would almost mean the same thing as completely quitting the mod development.

Wow, so the scorewhores leave the game when we remove the scores. What is the down side?

People left because the game is to hard or some other shit. Should the FH team change stuff just to please a whole bunch of whiny brats?

So FH team bending over so the cry babies have their way is ok? Be prepared to see mice in every map then.




jodonnell

FH Artist

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6th June 2005

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#58 13 years ago

As a brief aside, isn't winning or losing around essentially a macro-score both teams are trying to achieve? Thus, following certain arguments, isn't that detrimental to the gameplay? And then to extend that farther, wouldn't it be fair to suggest that FH2 remove entirely the concept of winning or losing a map, and have servers simply set a timer for each map, at the expiry of which the server simply changes maps? No winning or losing, no scoring, no score-whoring; just a utopian teamplay paradise.

Now obviously that is just a silly thing to consider. If there is no discernable win or loss state, why bother playing at all? Score provides a micro win/loss metric for each player, creating a framework with which to measure personal success. I haven't ever heard people complaining that tracking RBI scores and home runs per season totals has "ruined" baseball; so I think its a bit silly to suggest that a scorekeeping mechanism in-game will similarly ruin FH2. If someone can mention a commercially successful game that had absolutely zero mechanic to track progress or score, I'd love to hear it.

Apologies for excessive self-indulgent pedantism :lol:




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

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2nd May 2005

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#59 13 years ago

No, because winning or losing do not reflect directly on the individual player. Scores do.

Winning is a "macroscopic" score; if you were to track wins/losses of a certain player, he would do his best to help his team win, as opposed to working towards an single, compartmentalized goal. Ergo, help his team.

And that's a Good Thing (tm).




Lobo

All your base are belong to FH

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27th April 2003

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#60 13 years ago

Wow, are we becoming crazy?, to kill is obviously helping your team

Let's say a map has 200 tickets, if 4 buddies kill 50 enemies each one your team has won.

If one tanker camp in a chokepoint and kill all enemies trying to cross it he is pinning down a posible attack path of the enemy, decreasing the pressure in your buddies frontline

Obviously there are examples of selfish actitudes that desn't help your team, perfect example in Ramelle with those pansy pantz0r whores and in other maps.

Mandingo is totally right, that patch screwed the mods till we released the fix, face it, people plays for score. Our goal is encourage the teamplay and the active fight rewarding the kosher way of play, with this players gets their pretty scores and we get our pretty real battles