Since when could a Sherman Firefly, go toe to toe with a Tiger I and live? -1 reply

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Major Hartmann

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27th April 2003

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#21 16 years ago

I know you well enough, that's why I didn't jump onto you after your post ;) The Firefly should destroy the Tiger on the first shot anywhere at 200m, just like the Tiger should destroy the Firefly. No second shot needed. We end at our normal problem. The Bf maps are very small, any reasonable tank gun can kill a Tiger with one shot at 500m. Now, big tank guns were a little bit underrated against certain armourclasses, because I built in a "no increase" step every 5 steps, that's gone in 0.65a+, but it probably won't affect Shermans as a Target too much. Our damagesystem does follow exact rules, and it isn't flawed in itself. Of course these rules aren't perfect, but they are oriented after real values. We have another damagesystem, which pronounces the difference between penetration/no penetration way more clearly, meaning a penetration will cause at least about 70 damage for bigger guns, and raising within 20mm to fatal values, but this won't be in 0.66.

Edit: The Tiger is noticably stronger in the current internals, mostly due to the improved aiming, but partly also due to the little damageincrease. But: We should keep in mind that the Tigers got a big portion of their effectivity by the Elite crews they got.




Zehnder

Hands up. Who wants to die?

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27th July 2004

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#22 16 years ago
Anlushac11 If I was in a Sherman Firefly and I was going against a Tiger I would be thinking of how I can get a flank shot, not thinking "If I charge him and get off the first shot I can defiantely kill him before he gets off his second shot because I know I can survive the first."

Yes. Welcome to my new nightmare as an Axis tanker.




Ohioan

Not Wise Shitashi - Cheston

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6th October 2003

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#23 16 years ago

Major Hartmann

Edit: The Tiger is noticably stronger in the current internals, mostly due to the improved aiming, but partly also due to the little damageincrease. But: We should keep in mind that the Tigers got a big portion of their effectivity by the Elite crews they got.

Thanks! Thats great news.

It IS kind a duality (disclaimer: This is not a flame/gripe/bitch/rant, just something I noticed...) or an antiparallel that Tiger suckiness is attributed to them not being all that great, and having great crews that gave them their legendary status on the battlefield. This is true and I agree 100%. They certainly didn't suck, but most 1944-era tanks could stand head to head.

Now, the Tiger II is portrayed in FH as the best tank in existence, when realistically, most of the good Tiger crews were dead and it was built using substandard stuff that was selected from factory seconds, which is why about 50% of them failed mechanically and never even made it to the battlefield. Their armor was low quality steel that legitimate tests showed to be LESS effective then Tiger I armor. Historically, many aspects of the Tiger II were crappier then the Tiger I (except, of course, the gun and turret).

Now how does the team rationalize (again, not a flame, I just want to know the thought process) the King Tiger being flawless in FH and the Tiger I barely able to kill a Sherman head on, based on the same points of comparison?

From some Russian accounts the Tiger II was a laughing stock.




Major Hartmann

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27th April 2003

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#24 16 years ago

I won't start about russian sources here :) Although I wonder why KTs killed thousands of russian soldiers when they were that weak. Anyway, we don't portray technical difficulties, neither the KT will break down, nor will the Sherman light.




terminal-strike

terminal-strike

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5th May 2004

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#25 16 years ago

yea this is a good point, if the ammo doesn't brew up teh crew has a much better chance of suviving a hit and might be able to bale out. So if we really went for realisim the firefly would have brewed up on the first shot, oooh wait though, the tigerw would have been back in the hangar surrouned by mechaniccs.




Mazz

BFE-WAW

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15th November 2003

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#26 16 years ago

Ohioan, I believe they someone said a long time ago the KT in FH is what it was supposed to be in real life. And besides, I know you don't mind its power when your in it buddy. ;) And besides, I find it fun to go up against since it makes you think. Although I'm also happy bout the Tiger since it seemed so ineffective to me in .65 that i took a PIVF2 over it. And maybe time calls for a open country Russian steppes map and a French fields map where the Tigers can actaully use the range that made them so frightened. I'm talking 1/3 of the map view distances.




Comrade0Red

Za *TRA*, Za Kommunizma!

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25th March 2004

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#27 16 years ago

I'd like to see far more open combat maps. Flat ground with a few little things blocking your view. Kind of like the old Caucaus map but done better, less trees, farmers fields, more tanks. That's where tanks really fought after all. Some of these maps seem like places a tank would never want to go.




MR.X`

I'm too cool to Post

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29th April 2004

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#28 16 years ago

The Tiger is way nerfed now. I've actually seen a Sherman M4A3 with the standard 75mm gun penetrate a Tiger in the front, at what is in FH, a long distance. Guys, we are all big boys here, we can deal with the Tiger being super like it was IRL.

Its not only with those tanks either. A Springfield should be able to penetrate the side armour of a Ha Go. A Ha Go should never be able to penetrate the front armour of a Sherman. The Panzerfaust should ALWAYS kill a Sherman. Too many times have I gotten a perfectly good shot only to see him cough some white smoke and roll off to a repair pad.




UTHER

ARTE ET MARTE

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5th December 2003

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#29 16 years ago

Hey Anlushac and all you Axis Tankers out there either your unlucky or i am, i mostly always play as an allied tanker and always choose the firefly if possible, and i can tell you from my ingame experience that if i dont think i can get 2 shots off at a Tiger before he can see me then i pull back and hide rather than engage him, cos if he gets 1 shot at me i always die straight away. The amount of times ive hid and engaged a Tiger got 1 shot in his side and he turns his tank onto me bang 1 shot and im dead, and he just rolls away smoking. So i must be unlucky !!!




Neighbor Kid

Pro Sherman Tanker

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31st July 2004

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#30 16 years ago
Anlushac11Because FH is a realism based mod and whether you accept it or not history tells us German 88's, Panther's 75, and Pak 40 were Sherman and T-34 slayers of much reknown. Because a Tiger I's 88 should be utterly lethal to a Sherman. Because 3rd Armor Division alone between June 6th 1944 and end of war IIRC had over 1500 Shermans knocked out and over 600 of those were destroyed. The Sherman was world reknown as the Ronson (after the cigarette lighter who's motto was something like "lights on the first strike every time"), Tommy cooker, Coffin for five brothers (Grant was coffin for seven brothers). It was a good tank in 1942 but was totally outclassed by mid 1943. @Fireblade666: A Tiger can penetrate a Sherman at over 2.5Km, so which one should die first? The one that gets off the first shot? that doesnt seem to be the case anymore.

Maybe the shell glanced opposed to penetrate....