Stationary ships? Idea.... -1 reply

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Lordbutter

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8th June 2004

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#1 16 years ago

On most Pacific maps we see destroyers being moved almost next to land, just to spam away at ground forces....some people even take it a step further and spam aa onto the land causing some people to have decreased preformance. So heres my thought...on maps that the ships dont really need to be moved why not lock them down? This prevents parking the ship next to a runway (wake) or a spawnpoint (iwo). Ships could still be used for spawnpoints, and still could be used for combined supporting fire....instead of being used for spamming. Now I understand on some maps moving the ship is vital to its survivial, but on others its just not even needed. On Iwo the japanese have no way to destroy the destroyer once the airfeild is capped. Usually some score-whore parks the destroyer and just spams the hill. If it was being done with a spotter then more power to them, but its just plain dumb that its not.




Gauntlet

Dead rather than Red!

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25th April 2004

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#2 16 years ago

hmmm...may be a good idea. Isnt it just to remove the ability to move, so it still can be destroyed? Could be good for maybe maps like Desert Rose and such also.




Yossarian

Moose frots Obama

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28th March 2005

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#3 16 years ago

Perhaps maybe just make the coastal area next to spawn points unenterable by destroyers. Because if the ships are stationary, then you get the problem of either the defgun can't hit them, or they're too easily hit by the defgun because they can't move.




DarthWoo

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19th February 2004

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#4 16 years ago

Yeah, that's the really big problem with stationary ships. As long as they're locked into their position, people will eventually learn to cloudspot their positions if there are any defguns or shore batteries that can actually hit them. That basically means that the ships are sitting ducks for the entire round every time they respawn. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the destroyer attacking Mount Suribachi from close range. There is a defgun and a cannon that can both seriously damage the destroyer on the west side of the map, and another defgun on the east side, so it's hardly the case that the Axis' only hope is its aircraft. (Although I've heard the next iteration of Iwo Jima will replace all the defguns with something a bit more realistic, so this may change.) If the Japanese are pinned at the top of the mountain, why shouldn't the destroyer be able to move in and provide supporting fire while the Americans regroup at the base of the mountain for their final charge? (Although this irks me because too often I've seen the Allies take all but the mountain, and then everyone piles up at the bottom of the mountain while I scream for somebody to help defend the airfield, and nobody does, and then a group of Japanese who easily snuck around the sides of the map slaughter me since I'm alone and don't know exactly which way they'll be coming from. Bloody allies can't be bothered to leave one damn tank to help defend the place.)




[SYN] Ace

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7th October 2003

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#5 16 years ago
LordbutterOn most Pacific maps we see destroyers being moved almost next to land, just to spam away at ground forces....some people even take it a step further and spam aa onto the land causing some people to have decreased preformance. So heres my thought...on maps that the ships dont really need to be moved why not lock them down? This prevents parking the ship next to a runway (wake) or a spawnpoint (iwo). Ships could still be used for spawnpoints, and still could be used for combined supporting fire....instead of being used for spamming. Now I understand on some maps moving the ship is vital to its survivial, but on others its just not even needed. On Iwo the japanese have no way to destroy the destroyer once the airfeild is capped. Usually some score-whore parks the destroyer and just spams the hill. If it was being done with a spotter then more power to them, but its just plain dumb that its not.

To me -- a destroyer sailing up to pound a flag or an airfield is part of the game. In WWII destroyers on D-Day came in just a couple of hundred yards of the Omaha beach, so close they were afraid they'd ground, and "spammed" the Germans at point blank range -- that's the main reason the G.I.s finally ended up getting off the beach.




BDNeon

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8th February 2005

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#6 16 years ago
DarthWooYeah, that's the really big problem with stationary ships. As long as they're locked into their position, people will eventually learn to cloudspot their positions if there are any defguns or shore batteries that can actually hit them. That basically means that the ships are sitting ducks for the entire round every time they respawn. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the destroyer attacking Mount Suribachi from close range. There is a defgun and a cannon that can both seriously damage the destroyer on the west side of the map, and another defgun on the east side, so it's hardly the case that the Axis' only hope is its aircraft. (Although I've heard the next iteration of Iwo Jima will replace all the defguns with something a bit more realistic, so this may change.) If the Japanese are pinned at the top of the mountain, why shouldn't the destroyer be able to move in and provide supporting fire while the Americans regroup at the base of the mountain for their final charge? (Although this irks me because too often I've seen the Allies take all but the mountain, and then everyone piles up at the bottom of the mountain while I scream for somebody to help defend the airfield, and nobody does, and then a group of Japanese who easily snuck around the sides of the map slaughter me since I'm alone and don't know exactly which way they'll be coming from. Bloody allies can't be bothered to leave one damn tank to help defend the place.)

You know, in real life most defended islands or shores with artillery support had coordinates for every position a ship could be at, so that when a ship was spotted at a certain point on the coordinate map, those coordinates could be sent to the batteries for them to aim their fire with. Also, ships moved slower in real life, so having them not move at all is more realistic then them going as fast as a friggin torpedo boat. I sometimes memorize the positions the yellow bars for the artillery cam are at when I fire at a capital ship spawn point (For example, 4 down and 3 left), so that next time I can merely point my binocs at the ground, place an artillery cam, and hop in the gun and fire using just the yellow bars. So my point is that artillery being able to hit the ships from the start and keep hitting them just adds to the realism and fun of the mod.




DarthWoo

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19th February 2004

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#7 16 years ago
BDNeonYou know, in real life most defended islands or shores with artillery support had coordinates for every position a ship could be at, so that when a ship was spotted at a certain point on the coordinate map, those coordinates could be sent to the batteries for them to aim their fire with. Also, ships moved slower in real life, so having them not move at all is more realistic then them going as fast as a friggin torpedo boat. I sometimes memorize the positions the yellow bars for the artillery cam are at when I fire at a capital ship spawn point (For example, 4 down and 3 left), so that next time I can merely point my binocs at the ground, place an artillery cam, and hop in the gun and fire using just the yellow bars. So my point is that artillery being able to hit the ships from the start and keep hitting them just adds to the realism and fun of the mod.

Maybe for you, but what about the people in the ship? Also, if all the ships were as fast as the torpedo boats, given the momentum they have, we'd have a lot more problems with people inadvertantly driving off the map, so your "realism" argument holds little water. I suppose having the ships stationary might benefit those who cannot aim artillery based on other people's spotting (although I admit getting someone to spot can be a challenge occasionally), but that's about it.




Blood n Guts

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22nd March 2005

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#8 16 years ago

yes, shore batteries are deadly, but not even an idiot would bring a capital ship, like an aircraft carrier, within range of a shore battery, so hitting the carrier from a shore battery isn't realistic. The same goes for battleships, which posses much greater range than a shore battery. The only ships that ever were at risk to shore battery action were destroyers and troop transports, as a destroyer would move in close for fire support (like at Wake and Omaha), while a troop transport came in close to launch troops. Making ships stationary would make it unrealistic, as once a shore battery zeroed in, there would be no defense against it. The carriers and battleships which would be out of range in real life (and can manuver as a substitute) and destroyers would make easy targets.




West36

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24th March 2005

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#9 16 years ago
To me -- a destroyer sailing up to pound a flag or an airfield is part of the game. In WWII destroyers on D-Day came in just a couple of hundred yards of the Omaha beach, so close they were afraid they'd ground, and "spammed" the Germans at point blank range -- that's the main reason the G.I.s finally ended up getting off the beach.

This brings up a point, I think Charlie Sector should have a destroyer, I've seen a few times that the allies could use this, and its not like the Germans couldn't destroy it.




BDNeon

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8th February 2005

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#10 16 years ago

A destroyer on Omaha WOULD be nice, though the jerries would need a few more of those big coastal guns to keep it even. Try to customize the destroyer so it fires slower and cant move, so that it wont get to the point of the bunkers becoming unusable due to constant barrage. Oh, and Darthwoo? They DO go as fast as torpedo boats (Or damn near close at any rate)