Suggestion about supercharge -1 reply

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mydjinny

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2nd August 2006

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#1 11 years ago

I don't want to sound like a nagging critic but Supercharge is a painful map to go through, in my opinion. The 88 ridge is the only thing that appeals to me and even then bots never use the machine guns (Or seldom do) so the 88s are all the Jerries have. And true, they do a good job taking out perhaps 1 wave of tanks, but the next wave overwhelms them because with enough tanks and infantry firing, the ROF of 88s just doesn’t square. The sandstorm seems pointless where it is cuz apart from Brits ducking into the trench to cap the flag no one cares for a sandstorm at the corner of the entire map The 2 bases North are fine although in such as way that the Jerries would find it hard defending them for long (Moreso the one close the British main base) – Once again the Jerries seldom use the Mg emplacements to hold off the British and they hardly use the tanks at this bases. The game grinds to a stalemate at the entrance of the town. What makes this worse is the fact that the town is too small for tanks to play any part within – The 2 main roads leading up to the flags are practically all there is and the Jerries can hold off indefinitely since the Brits can never muster enough force to overwhelm them on these only 2 roads – Fact of the matter is, the rest of the town becomes an elaborate decoration since most areas end in cul-de-sacs so all there really is to this part of the map is the 2 roads. Finally, the small base closest the allies has a tunnel only a few meters long, which, although acting like a pathway to the 88 ridge, serves little else – The tunnel is too simple and short for much else than a mild resistance and the teaser video made all these points seem a lot more elaborate then really were…. In my opinion, this map needs to be redone to make it as good as it really can be… The area behind the 88 ridge is fine, but it certainly would be nice if the ridge was that more formidable – Say, having 3 88s, a more elaborate trench system linking them, sandstorm moved slightly to obscure the path to the flag, a more intricate tunnel system, or a number of such tunnels, and finally, a town that stretches to about the size of that of mersa matru. It isn’t farfetched, a town that stretched would leave a map remainder the size of mersa matru’s outskirts that encompasses everywhere from the German base, across the long distance to the outer bases… Pretty large an area to have a good 88 ridge, intricate tunnels (Which allow tanks to go over them as well as alongside them [Perhaps an addition to the dust effect for tanks can be no-clipping falling dust that can only be appreciated at these points as dust falling from the roof when tanks are overhead and vibration from the proximity of the tanks]), and best of all, a town setting that allows tanks to travel some areas – Perhaps once a certain wall is breached? And a more diverse pathway to the flags… With a few 88, MG and flak defenses against air and land troops. All the other maps are lovely, absolutely wonderful – But Supercharge (Which has always appealed to me as one of trhe most wonderful desert map ideas) seems to come out a bit short in my personal oppinion




[130.Pz]W.Fuchs

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#2 11 years ago

About the sandstorm, it's annoying and makes me lag =p Although I do use the MG's alot on that hill. They are very useful when infantry is coming from the other side.




Archimonde0_0

In Vino Veritas

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#3 11 years ago

He's obviously referring to single player here. While I too find supercharge to be one of the worst maps both in FH1 and FH2, the reasons why bots don't use machine guns or emplaced weapons properly is all inside the codding. This is how a bot works when interacting in the world: He sees his threat The games code has a series of values which are within the .tweak and .con files through-out the Objects_server.zip. Each option is weighed differently (wow i can't spell differently) say a tank is his threat well he now has his options: Rifle Pistol Grenade Flak Machine Gun Mine Anti-Tank Grenade and lets pretend the weight values were these: Rifle 0 Pistol 0 Grenade 1 Flak 10 Machine Gun 0 Mine 9 Anti-Tank Grenade 5 Because the flak has the highest value against the Tank he goes for the flak gun. Now the game takes into consideration to sequence of targets. Each one is given a strategic value, some tanks have higher strategic values than others, and the bots natural reaction is to take our the tank with the higher strategic value, and work his way down, If he is not in range or is out of sight of the tank with the highest value he moves onto the next one, if he is the same for that one, he goes lower, and so on and so forth. The same reasoning goes for the Machine Guns, for whatever reason, somewhere within the bots coding, another weapon has higher strength values against infantry. Personally I believe machine guns should have the highest value against infantry, followed by service rifle, and sub-machine gun, and then pistols and other weapons. However this is not coded so. Also affecting the bots use of Machine guns is the fact that the tank has a higher strategic value than an enemy infantryman. So the AI takes out the tanks first, then the Infantry. In my tweaks Infantry is balanced with Tanks, both having the same value, so the AI engages both equally. There is also controls for what engages what. Infantry vs tank, tank vs infantry, tank vs tank. My tweaks for my singleplayer have Infantry Focusing on the Infantry, whilst the Tanks focus on the Tanks. Dive Bombers on Tanks and Vehicles, Fighters on enemy Aircraft. It is possible to tweak the bots to your liking, if you have a little bit of time and some common knowledge of modding BF2. As for now, the version of bots that come with FH2, are not at there optimum tweak, In my opinion. It has nothing to do with the map, but the bots themselves.




General_Henry

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29th April 2006

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#4 11 years ago
LordInvictus;4306273About the sandstorm, it's annoying and makes me lag =p Although I do use the MG's alot on that hill. They are very useful when infantry is coming from the other side.

yes, just shooting enemy charging infantry like in Omaha :)

i want to give my view of the map supercharge, it's a good map, just players don't understand this very complex map.

General Allied advantage :

1. good tanks, many many of them. people just use the tanks as armoured trucks. well. with a gun and MG .

2. with good planes that could suppress static defenses.

3. Artillery support, heavy one.

4. have a main.

5. Higher tickets

Disadvantage for allied :

1. far away from important flags... while the Germans could simply spawn in them and prepare defense.

2. Stukas could be annoying, distracting allied fighters.

3. the allied have no easy way to bleed the Germans, while it's constant bleeding if not holding 3 flags.

first, we know that there are 3 flags that are capable to cap in 1st wave, 2 are unrecappable.

an analysis of the 3 flags

1. 88 flak flag

brief description :

a crazy fortification , that is very hard to cap.

Advantage :

1. Next to open ground, that means enemy infantry have to charge with no cover, or only with tanks suppressing.

2. 88 flak is scary to tanks, they might not be killing many, but have great threatening power.

3. Flag is not under suppression of any stuffs.

4. there's only a single road for tanks to go up, it is next to impossible to get a tank up. (mines...)

5. 2 bunkers, with MG inside, provide good cover and good firepower.

6. a variety of spawnpoints, one could choose to spawn with less risk of getting spawnraped.

7. halftrucks and MG truck gives additional MG fire, if used properly. Disadvantages :

1. The flag have no effective air defense, so air attack is going to make it crazy, many 88 are destroyed in this way.

2. sometimes the bunker is a good place for allied flagcapper to hide.

3. bunker MG runs out quick.

4. many players are unawared of "flanking from left" allies, because they are too concentrated on looking forwards. the flag often falled due to carelessness, and most players are too confident...

Summary :

this flag could hold out for a whole round if the allies don't have good teamwork.

2. Hill Tunnel Bunker flag (non recappable) Brief description :

a flag that is located inside a bunker. provides cover for the 88 flag.

Advantage for axis :

1. it's again not very suitable for tanks to go up in the front, yet this is the most likely way to get a tank up without capping the 88 flag.

2. the flag is located deep inside a bunker that could be easily S mine sealed.

3. have a little pak 38... could be used to cover the 88 flag.

4. the flag is immune from tank attacks.

5. provides good cover for the 88 flag.

Disadvantages for axis :

1. very bad spawnpoints that could be easily camped.

2. could be attacked from many directions ( infantry), after the enemy infantry secured the road and tanks could come up, a single tank up there often ends in spawncamping.

Summary :

this flag is a must for allied to cap before capping the 88 flag if the German team is good. after it falled, the allied troops could suppress the Germans easier,

sherman tankers and grant tankers don't want their back to be shot by German AT rifles, do they?

3. the recappable town.

Brief descriptions :

a simple town that's closest to allied base.

Advantages for axis :

1. spawns 2 panzer III j tanks.

2. miners' heaven. there are not many tanks that could get out after getting in.

3. a flag that could only be capped by infantry.

4. have air defense.

5. a town with many buildings.

Disadvantages for axis :

1. this flag is often pounded by mortars, artillery, HE shells of tanks...heavy casualties.

2. since it's close to allied base enemy tanks just keep coming without some time for you to take a break.

3. Allied tanks are unstoppable by mines. 4. defending the flag often ended in heavy casualties for axis, which is not really worth it.

4. 4th flag that spawns a panzer 4f2

Brief description :

a very simple trench-bunker defense.

Advantage for axis:

1. spawns the most powerful tank they got.

2. far away from allied base, allied tanks often come one by one...and die one by one.

3. no mortar support for allied, less deaths.

4. with bunkers that could be used for cover.

5. the trench is quite a place for infantry...

6. far away from other flags.

7. important : it spawns planes, i see too many players waiting for planes after this flag falled.

Disadvantages for axis:

1. the defense is really "small" , artillery fire is still quite deadly, i bet everyone played this map as axis got killed by artillery fire at this flag.

2. no more bleeding for allied, that means the allied could camp you to death with their better firepower.

3. tanks could watch the flag with HE shells and machine guns...the flag radius that connects to spawn point is mostly exposed.

after it become grey axis mostly just have to sit and wait for it to fall.

5. the 2 town flags

brief descriptions :

a town with only 2 entrance...i think there's one more entrance though, but it's not a common one.

simply say we lose, if the allied have much fewer tickets when they comes to this flag. Properties :

1. spawns 2 medium tank, and a light one.

2. tanks could not aid the infantry inside ...but without tanks infantry could not get near to the town. that means there are less allied soldiers than Axis inside the town.

3. it's a deathtrap if the Germans defend it well... 4. no more artillery fire support for allied, raping become impossible.

5. strange songs makes you forget the battle .

6. Germans start bleeding if any of the flag is capped, and often they lose if they could not retake it fast enough ( hey, how could you recap that flag after 32 allied dug in there? not even you got cheats)

7. snipers!...

8. it's common to see Germans plane camping without realising there won't be planes once they only have 2 flags. and many of the axis just get spawnkilled after the allied secured the tank spawn with a few tanks.

i might be wrong, but that's my view of this map...

this map is so colorful with plenty of action, town fighting(infantry action), tank fighting, tank-infantry combat, mining warfare, static defense warfare, strafing , bombing, artillery fire, and air to air combat.

it just lacks scout planes. :)




mydjinny

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2nd August 2006

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#5 11 years ago

But the ratios are wrong. The town is well, a couple of decorations really, otherwise - Its 2 roads surrounded by walls.... You can't get the intensity of city fighting as you could in Supercharge COD2.

No 88 defenses, MG guns defending small areas... The flag is in the open meaning attackers get to meet any defender once there. And yet, you can read the fact that a town at the end of the flag-line could have so much potential - Air supremacy, Some degree of tank support, destructable walls at points, Narrow corridors with MG emplacement, house to house fighting, AA defenses....

The 88 ridge could be alot more interesting I think...

Look, what happens if this map was layered over Mersa Matru, the town spread out a bit (But not as much as matru) the open areas wide enough for good tank battles rather than being strips at the side of the flag points (These points currently don't play much strategic value cuz the defender knows he has no chance except in the bases, the attacker knows he wont get mucg resistance except at the bases so the tanks can be nothing mor than armored transports - Except perhaps at 88 ridge) -

Map doesn't favor planes either cuz the flag ponits are so closed and covered, the sweetest points should be the 2 flag points inline with the town, but those are the worst for strafing runs cuz, well, you don't see anyone under the trees and amongst the chunky defenses....

fact is, this map, in my oppinion, should be redone - It was one of the devs' earliest and I'm sure they've learnt something about mapping in BF2 as they did in BF42 since their earlier maps - They could keep this map as a 'classic' as it is, or they really could make it the people favourinte with a bit of everything for everyone - I'm jut saying....




General_Henry

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29th April 2006

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#6 11 years ago
mydjinny;4307074But the ratios are wrong. The town is well, a couple of decorations really, otherwise - Its 2 roads surrounded by walls.... You can't get the intensity of city fighting as you could in Supercharge COD2.

no no, there's a building the one could climb up in the inner road just next to the entrance, you could climb even to the top and try to jump inside ... i not tried to jump inside though.

and the Shermans could stay in the entrance of the road and fire HE , smoke shells, it's not really that hard to get in. the problem is the inner parts ;)

The 88 ridge could be alot more interesting I think...

it's already very fun , except many players don't like defending it, but i admit that it could be slightly better.

Look, what happens if this map was layered over Mersa Matru, the town spread out a bit (But not as much as matru) the open areas wide enough for good tank battles rather than being strips at the side of the flag points (These points currently don't play much strategic value cuz the defender knows he has no chance except in the bases, the attacker knows he wont get mucg resistance except at the bases so the tanks can be nothing mor than armored transports - Except perhaps at 88 ridge) -

Mersa Matruh is my fav. too, either as British or Germans,

playing British and pushing a 6 pdr and pretent to be a tank (well, i killed a few infantry in single life by hitting them with the 6 pdr shells)

playing with Germans and driving a tank down there like mad. ;)




mydjinny

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#7 11 years ago

You really like this map, huh, Henry.... Well, I have to disagree. It seems to have alot more potential in it than it ends up being... And I'd really want to see a super charge that makes use of all that potential - All 4 existing aircrafts and hence good dogfighting, all tank kinds, strong Jerry fortifications, a wonderful seige and defense of 88 ridge with everything from arty fire, to smoke shells and coordinated attacks of tank and infantry, defenders falling back using tunnels and the crescendo: Entrenching in and arround the town on roofs and with 88 and mg defenses with infantry being supported by tank at certian areas, diverse infantry combat at others.... I think it can exist, just not with the current supercharge




turnpipe

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#8 11 years ago

The only thing i don't like about super charge its to tight. Now tights a good thing on some occasions. And I'm glad i cant remember my journey out of my mothers. I dub the map "Super Maxi".




mydjinny

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#9 11 years ago

hmmmm....




[WOLF] Ionizer

Do the Squirrel Dance!

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#10 11 years ago
turnpipe;4308537The only thing i don't like about super charge its to tight. Now tights a good thing on some occasions. And I'm glad i cant remember my journey out of my mothers. I dub the map "Super Maxi".

Eww...