Tank steering & transmission -1 reply

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I didn't make it!

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#1 11 years ago

I'm not sure how this is done in FH2 in the moment or if this has been posted before, but here goes;

I'm just on my last days of my obligatory service in Finnish Defense Forces and I served as a commander (not sure if that's the right word, but you know, the guy in the tower telling the driver what to do.) of a BTR-50 APC ( BTR-50 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) wich is a 50's era vehicle. Yeah, it's still used here as a base for two sorts of communication vehicles. But that's off the point.

The point in all this is that I've been driving around with this old piece of shit for 10 months and I've gotten used to it. It only turns by locking the other side's track when moving in slow speeds, changing gears (especially from 2th to 3rd) takes ages sometimes and it takes ages to accelerate to it's top speed of 50 km/h. And then I hop into any of the old FH tanks and start driving and I think: "no fucking way! Everything is way too smooth!".

I'll try to explain what I mean and what I'd like to see in FH2, if the engine & all permits. Remember, this is based on my own experiences from my own little 50's dumpster, but I've seen indications and heard professionals talk that a lot of the WW2 armor used the same technologies for ex. turning the tank. For example this short video ( YouTube - Detling - T34(1) ) of a T-34 turning indicates that it's steering works the way BTR-50 does. A lot of videos of same era tanks can be found relatively easy.

1. Steering/turning

(old) Light tanks (apparently, even T-34 was a light tank :)) used simple clutch & brake system to turn, and do it in two ways: The first is braking and effectively stopping one track thus forcing the tank to turn around its center, like in the video earlier. This is the only way of turning in slow speeds if you don't have more "advanced" methods like the Tiger had with it's two fixed turn radii. The other way is to cut the power from one of the tracks thus enabling the roll friction to force the tank to turn, and this only works in higher speeds (with my tank it was gear 3 or above, approximately 20km/h).

I remember in BF1942 the tank's track never locked, they actually started to run BACKWARDS when turning tight turns in slow speeds. In higher speeds, in the other hand, the tanks speed tended to slow down when you tried to turn it more than a nudge. This is completely backwards what it should be: in slow speeds the tank stops when turning, and in higher speeds you wouldn't even notice the slowdown. High speed turns are done by slowing down or gearing down before the intended turn and then opening the clutch of on track & slamming the accelerator pedal trough the floor. Of course you could use the brake to lock the track in higher speeds too but you prolly wouldn't have any tracks on after that.

This all takes me to my first suggestion, and I don't know if this is possible, but: Simulate the clutch & brake turning. Make the tanks lock their tracks when turning in slow speeds and turn less sharp in higher speeds. Here's an example:

You hop into a T-34 and hit W to move the beast foward. You immediately come to a 90 degree corner and need to turn and you push D brake the right side while holding the foward button which keeps the left track rolling. This turns you right in the way seen in the video clip before. After the turn you hit W again to start accelerating and do so for some time.

Then you come to a bend and need to turn little to the left, you press A while still holding W to stop transmitting power to the left track and turn in a way more like the turning of the BF2 tanks. Afterwards you come to a steeper bend to the right and notice that just pressing the D doesn't make you turn you release the W button to simulate braking the right track to force the tank to turn.

Then you go nuts and want to kill yourself by rolling the tank to it's roof and press S while holding A or D to lock the track in high speed. Crash and burn. Normal slowing down would happen by just pressing the S button without holding either of the turn keys.

I think this would be easy enough for anyone to learn and still bring a lot more "right feel" into the tanks. Tiger and possible other tanks not using the clutch & brake system could work pretty much the way vanilla BF tanks work to simulate the somewhat easier driving of such vehicles.

2. Transmission

WW2 transmission wasn't like the ones we have in our BMW's and Hondas, they were crude chunks of metal filled with crude chunks of metal. You couldn't believe what an unbelievable noice it is when you lever a gear on in an old tank. It even feels like you're grinding gearwheels against each other when you've got your hand on the stick. It sometimes took two hands and a certain tools (hammer and wrench included) to put a gear on. Especially reverse gears can be very tricky, or so tells my driver and WW2 veteran who drove an T-34.

When accelerating the shifting up takes time, from less than a second to... well, even after ten months of pretty continous driving my driver just simply didn't get a gear on fast enough and the tank slid to a stop. When accelerating the gear change goes like this: cut input, press clutch, release gear, release clutch, press clutch, insert gear, release clutch. When braking it's cut input, press clutch, release gear, release clutch, push input, push clutch, insert gear, release clutch. Everybody who've driven an old truck knows how it's done.

So, the corner pop-up-shooting we all loved in FH isn't really possible in real life, at least with most tanks. With T-34 it would most be more likely to end up dead trying to put reverse on than gently backing up to safety.

My dearest hope is that it would be possible to simulate this awkward process of gear change, at least in some level. Make it take some time to reverse the direction of the tank, make it have 2-4 second pauses when accelerating, anything to add this essential part of driving an old tank into the mod. With the gears implemented it would make a real difference between manual, semi automatic & automatic transmissions of the time.

And if different gears are possible, it's propably possible to link the beforementioned driving changes to certain gears, for example in reverse, 1st and 2nd you could only turn by locking the track.

I was hoping that I would have time & the game to fraps a demonstration of what it would look like but alas you have to settle for one random short video and my ramblings. I hope some of you (especially the devs :)) understand what I mean and what I yearn for.

Oh, and I'm deeply sorry if I'm mistaken in some things or have bad grammar, feel free to correct me.




Annihilator911

My GF makes me horny

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23rd October 2005

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#2 11 years ago

this would be cool for a realism mini mod for fh2. they can put all the realism in the mini mod. for eg. slow turrent turning with keyboard.




Coca-Cola

[130.Pz.]A.Aussen

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28th August 2006

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#3 11 years ago

I get wet dreams from having this in game.

Annihilator911;3758915they can put all the realism in the mini mod. for eg. slow turrent turning with keyboard.

But that's going to be in the main version. It's either that or even slower turning with the mouse.




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

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2nd May 2005

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#4 11 years ago

This is a very very cool description. Rep ++




FlyGuy45

*TRA* Spsk. Pilotka VVS

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22nd June 2005

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#5 11 years ago

Very, very nice post. +8




No.8 wire man

Who the **** is Reven?

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30th May 2006

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#6 11 years ago

Bring on a realism mini mod!! :beer:




granpa_jo

I bent my Wookie.

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1st September 2006

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#7 11 years ago

what about this:

W is gas Q is neutral for left, A is brake left. E is neutral right, D is for brake left. S, is still reverse.

w q e asd




Coca-Cola

[130.Pz.]A.Aussen

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28th August 2006

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#8 11 years ago

I kind of want to have mandatory military service here. Especially after I saw the movie of the Leopard 2s in the hands of 18 year old Swedes. Skylines are great but...




wjlaslo

I've defected to the Pies

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13th August 2004

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#9 11 years ago

This sounds great and all. I've known how tanks were really steered before for a while and I realized how different it is from real life and FH. Tanks like the Tiger I should of course use the normal steering system of FH, that's how it was in real life. But I think that they should keep all or most of the tanks using the "easy" way, because many noobs will be put off by this. I just think it would be better to put this in an "extreme realism" minimod because a good game is a mix of fun and realism. I love realism, but there's a point, when in my opinion, it can go too far and make the game simply finicky, frustrating, and difficult to play so much that nobody wants to play it.




No.8 wire man

Who the **** is Reven?

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30th May 2006

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#10 11 years ago

^^ I was about to go on the offensive about how realism would make the mod more immersive, but I won't go there again, way too repetitive!

Instead I think that there is a definite hardcore group of gamers amongst the FH fraternity and perhaps a realism mini-mod might get off the ground once FH2 gets up and running and some suitably skilled group of individuals may pick it up and run with the idea.

Who knows :???:




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