The case for the FT-17/18 and related types -1 reply

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terminal-strike

terminal-strike

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6th May 2004

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#1 13 years ago

Yea sure, its one of those tanks from that 'other war', yet as it turns out it, and types based of it saw a suprising amount use in some very notable places during the war. FT types and derivatives served very significanty with the french, germans, italians, and polish. Also, with a bunch of others to varying degrees and significance to fh or that I have found info on. (such as finns, japs, soviets, etc..) Franch had a few thousand in service in 1940, mainly the FT-17 with a 7.5mm mg (aka the FT-31), as well as FT-18s with a 37mm cannon or twin mgs. The proportions armed with 8mm mg, the 7.5, etc. I have not found. On the ft17 http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/france/tanks_light/ft_17.html http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/france/France-Light.html overview- http://users.swing.be/tanks.tanks/complet/718.html

a french ft-31 ft17-1_062.jpg Bunch of pictures of ft's (some in ww2 some ww1) http://www.chars-francais.net/archives/ft17_mit.htm for a game, but neat blurb on them. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/6498/t2000ww2frencharmor.html There was numerous variants and derviatives, the most proment being the a circular turret vs polygonal and of course the armarments. The ft's were used by the french in the bof, and in some other places such as north africa. FT turn up in a variety of obscure places, for exmaple they were reportendly the first tanks fought by US in ww2

An interesting bit of information: The American army's first run in with an enemy tank in WW2, during the landings in North Africa, was against this one. French Vichy forces, reacting to the invasion, advanced with infantry and 7 Renault FT-17's against 3 American Stuart light tanks (under General George Patton). The encounter left 3 FT-17's destroyed and caused the French to withdraw. The Stuart's never suffered a single hit

. A very small battle indeed, but this one could potentially actually "fit" inside the refractor engine (in terms of numbers of forces involved). some destroyed french ft17s ft17-1_076.jpg Poland had at least over a 100 involved in the defense which were used in various ways. http://www.geocities.com/pibwl/ft17.htm here is a polish one ft17col.jpg The italians developed the Ft series into the fiat 3000. http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Italy/ItalianTanks.html The fiat 3000 were used in there abysinnia invasion(ft types actually used by both sides), and a decent amount during ww2 in various places in north africa, such as in libya. There last major use was in the defense of sciily. Germany ended up using fts a decent amount because they captured many from france hundreds and hundreds of 'em, and also from poland. Known as Pzkfpw17R 730(f), and Pzkfpw 18R 730(f) primairly. In terms of comabat by germans, as misc. places will mentioned it turrets taken off and used in various emplacements and would have seen action in the days after d-day. They were also used in the final defense of paris. For example here is one fitted with a 75mm cannon (the BS) which saw action shortly after d-day (reportedly). fra-charcanonBS.jpg And thats not all, the were 36 sent to china that saw limted action there (mostly captured by japan). There was also a few used by the finns. Japan also used a them significantly as the Type 79 Ko-Gata Sensha, and they saw action in manchuria and against china. They were listed under active service until 1940. http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japan/japan-earlyarmor.html http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/FT.html It served with other nations too, but these are the ones in fh that it applies to more. Its really amazing little tank in how many places it turned up, quite suprise it saw so much use. There are of course other things in ww2 that are more needed to be in FH by various measures, but guess what- they have nearly all been suggested often times repeatedly. In fact, even the ft-17 has been mentioned elsewhere, but I thought it should be suggested in earnest and given a decent overview. And before you are quick to critze this thing, remember there were thousands in french service in 1940 and a great number used in the bof, more avaible then any single french tank early on. It also served in many theaters, including the defense of poland, in asia, and even the invasion of siciliy and after d-day.




tvih

The Village Idiot from Hell

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30th December 2003

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#2 13 years ago

I wouldn't mind one. Finns didn't use their FT-17s much during the wars. Even in the Winter War they were only used as dug-in MG bunkers basically, and most were lost to the enemy if I recall correctly.

Wonder where one could find a magneto for the FT-17's engine... Finland would have one FT-17 in running condition, if not for the missing magneto :lol: That'd probably be the only working FT-17 in the world? :eek:




Major Hartmann

Major Disinformation

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27th April 2003

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#3 13 years ago

Why would you want this tank? It's about as powerfull as those polish cars.... Nobody would use it, it's slower then a Matilda I, has lighter armour then a PII, and a gun that isn't worth to be called a gun.




silian

40 years of the Ford Escort!

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10th October 2004

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#4 13 years ago

Well i for one would like to see the FT-17/18 in the mod, the turrets could be used for static defences on D-Day maps (as the Germans did) most FT-17/18's retained by the Germans in their original form were used in the internal security role, and it is quite possible that they were used against Allied Airborne forces on D-Day, i think it would be useful on maps focused on Infantry combat, though it would require close co-operation with supporting infantry to be of any use.




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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2nd May 2003

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#5 13 years ago
Major HartmannWhy would you want this tank? It's about as powerfull as those polish cars.... Nobody would use it, it's slower then a Matilda I, has lighter armour then a PII, and a gun that isn't worth to be called a gun.

Wz 34 with 37mm Puteaux gun isn't in any of the maps so hard to say. It may be a pos but so was a lot of other tanks (Crusader I, Jagdtiger etc) and weapons (Boys, Grease gun, nambu). France and Poland could use other tanks before this particular pos though Edit: So the wz 34 is ingame now, the gun isn't that worthless




Montoya

FH Dev

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19th June 2003

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#6 13 years ago

actually yeah; it COULD get into the mod; as a static wreck model for decoration ;)




Major Hartmann

Major Disinformation

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27th April 2003

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#7 13 years ago
D-FensWz 34 with 37mm Puteaux gun isn't in any of the maps so hard to say. It may be a pos but so was a lot of other tanks (Crusader I, Jagdtiger etc) and weapons (Boys, Grease gun, nambu). France and Poland could use other tanks before this particular pos though Edit: So the wz 34 is ingame now, the gun isn't that worthless

Lol, you sure you want to compare the Crusader I or Jagdtiger to the FT17? Crusader I is a good tank imo, and the Jagdtiger at least makes one hell of an AT gun. Good you mention the Boys, because that gun has a better armour penetration then the 37mm gun of this thing.

Ah, don't mind the Wz34, there is worse stuff (Wz29 Ursus) /shivers in fear




Komrad_B

Score Monkey

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2nd September 2004

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#8 13 years ago

You won't make it only because it was bad? I suppose we should all fight with Kingtigers, GO229, Me262, Arado bombers, Jagdpanthers, StG44, FG42, Katyushas and JS2 now? I frankly prefer to see those old ass tanks, people won't take them to attack, because they were so slow, but at least they will serve as mobile pillboxes against infantry and light vehicules for MANY countries. And they were obviously important, in numbers at least (1500 FT17 in french service vs. only 500 KT ever prodced...).




Arisaka

Staff suffers from PCD

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16th August 2004

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#9 13 years ago
Komrad_BAnd they were obviously important, in numbers at least (1500 FT17 in french service vs. only 500 KT ever prodced...).

and despite three times more FT17s built - which tank does most people recall?

on topic: give us old, rusty stuff! :)




Tas

Serious business brigade

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4th September 2004

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#10 13 years ago
amaccannactually yeah; it COULD get into the mod; as a static wreck model for decoration ;)

What about a static defence item like the static dug-in ha-go's? Those ha-go's can be a *****s sometimes :)