Trees, Grass, Plants, Foliage, etc... -1 reply

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Coca-Cola

[130.Pz.]A.Aussen

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28th August 2006

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#1 11 years ago

Allright so you're all wondering about the title.

In my constant and awesome state of nerdiness, I love to show my dad, who's always giving harsh critique of anything that's been CG, new engines, games, software, renderers etc... He's always saying how dark it all looks in the movies and how almost all the stuff looks way too fake. When he saw the water and ground textures and shape of the land in BF42/FH1, he merely laughed and said it looked like shit. Usually I just brush him off with comebacks of "it's how it plays and the people who made this are rich...except Lobo he's dirt poor:p" or "as if you could do better!".

Anyways he said something to me a few days ago which finally made some-a lot of sense; he commented how in the cryengine2 HD preview video which was released not too long ago, that "everything looks too...perfect" when he saw the trees and foliage in the film. I couldn't have agreed more. None of the trees have any rot, abnormalities/unique growth defects, or any breakage due to human interference. Now, I know that the latter won't be much of an issue in cryengine2 or, hopefully, in any future engines but the first two really hold a lot of validity since he was a farmer for 25+ years and knows a thing or two about plants. Stylie it has nothing to do with marijuana; he's not that type of farmer so I'm sorry to burst your bubble:p. I had to agree with him that it looked like the so called "jungles" were filled with plastic-decorative plants and we're not convincing at-all when it comes to imitating nature.

It's just something that has bothered me but more so him as he sees all these "crappy" computer games/engines and their attempts at reality and I just wanted to bring this to the devs attention now since there was a begging call for static/foliage modelers on the main page. Say no to fake/perfect and anorexic-model plants in games and go for the el-naturel foliage...It'll make parents the world over shut up about that aspect when they're criticizing the video games that we all love and enjoy.

Oh and no farmer jokes since he's selling it for a cool 2 mil so laugh at that if you do make one or two or three...

Look to see how there are many differences in color in healthy and unhealthy plants alike. Of course it will be less noticeable comparatively in the latter

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You get the point. Does anyone else think that this guy is a little too happy to have a long, wide cuccumber in his hand? AMFFT2A1.jpg



Moose12

I am also [130.Pz]Gef.Elche Pz

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6th December 2005

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#2 11 years ago

When I saw yu posting pictures of plants, I stopped reading.




Coca-Cola

[130.Pz.]A.Aussen

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28th August 2006

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#3 11 years ago

Any sort of reply would be greatly appreciated.




General Rommel

BF2 Files Staff

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25th October 2004

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#4 11 years ago

Variety would make this game more interesting yes.




Tas

Serious business brigade

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4th September 2004

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#5 11 years ago

The problem is that trees are /very/ complex objects, battleships, tanks, and even people dont even come near to them. So to make them look realistic close up is.. impossible. At least thats what i think.

FH1 used what i think are called sprites, basically flat things with a color/texture, which is why they look so strange when you are crawling trough foliage.

But anyway, i'm sure the devs will do their best, but FH2 is not going to come near what Crysis can do, so get ready for more bitching. :P




Real-BadSeed

Science experiment

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5th December 2004

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#6 11 years ago

If i was to start modeling, plants and foliage would be what i would make. I am planning on making some drawings, for any plant-makers. As a mapper i have an idea of what i could use to good effect. And where i see areas that need improvement. I fully agree though, that our virtual landscapes look too perfect and there is to much repetitiveness, the same bush over and over, etc. To fix that would require thousands of plant models however. Theres a limit though, as people most likely wont want to D/L a mod thats 8 gigs of mainly plants and trees. I have some ideas for getting good variety without an individual model for ever tree. Make a few models of one type of tree, then make 3-4-5 add-on branches to arrange in different places on the main model. You could make dozens of different looking trees just from these few pieces. I think ground cover is where games have been lacking the most, and the main reason it still looks as fake as it does. We are a long way from photo realistic enviroments in a multiplayer fps. I think they look believable though, and thats the main thing.




Natty Wallo

FH2 LevelDesigner

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16th December 2005

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#7 11 years ago

Well what can I say... someone looking at CryEngine and saying its not good, well.. simply doesnt know anything about computer-generated environment, and does not belong to the demograph that the developer is aiming towards.. (no disrespect to your dad Coca-cola!)... but hes right, ofcourse there should be more torn, dirty objects and textures, especially in WW2, but if you look at how far we've come today from vanilla bf42, I think we're on our way... also a multiplayer game as Bf42 cant really use all that variation and detail that singleplayer games have, simply because the graphics must be multi-compatible with lots of players.. some like clean uniforms, some like dirty, some like intact buildings, some like destroyed burned houses... We thought a lot about this when we created the south-east asian theatre, we've been giving the australian, british and Dutch soldiers muddy, dirty uniforms, a three-day shave, the tanks have mud on them etc, it doesnt feel right to have soldiers and vehicles that look like they just came from the factory, like in vanilla... also its funny cos a vanilla 42 map has between 400-800 static objects, the area is all clean, so they cant even make their uniforms dirty! When you make maps with up to 30.000 static objects (27.000 being foliage, grass and bushes) it also makes more sense to texture the objects and skins so they fit in... a dirty, worn uniform in vanilla 42 wouldnt look good, since the environment there is not made like if it would cause that...

Im looking forward to CryEngine (Crysis) but really not to look at amazing effects, stunning textures etc.. is it a good game? will the multiplayer mode be good? will I manage to finish the game without getting fed up with the linear and dipping script (like I did FarCry a few levels from finish)... These questions are most important, way more important than how a high-detailed leaf is slowly waving in the wind with a dynamic shadow effect that flows over it as it moves... thats cool if you know how hard thats to make, but do u look at it when the enemy comes?




Coca-Cola

[130.Pz.]A.Aussen

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28th August 2006

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#8 11 years ago

Tas;3670719The problem is that trees are /very/ complex objects, battleships, tanks, and even people dont even come near to them. So to make them look realistic close up is.. impossible. At least thats what i think.

FH1 used what i think are called sprites, basically flat things with a color/texture, which is why they look so strange when you are crawling trough foliage.[/quote] I wouldn't say impossible what with all the fantastic DEM machines which you could scan the surfaces of real foliage with but yes they're definitely complex

I absolutely hate those sprite things, just a sorry excuse for tall grass and other relatively tall plants. I dream of the day where every grass leaf is a seperate object that you can interact with. But that'll be, judging by where we're at, a long time in coming. As people become accustomed to relatively high amounts of detail, they'll just want more, it's human nature.

Real-BadSeed;3671012I fully agree though, that our virtual landscapes look too perfect and there is to much repetitiveness, the same bush over and over, etc. To fix that would require thousands of plant models however. Theres a limit though, as people most likely wont want to D/L a mod thats 8 gigs of mainly plants and trees.[/quote] I hope that eventually, at least 8 gigs, becomes the norm as people start to realize the importance of the landscape in which they fight. I mean FFS, it's where you're fighting and if you're playing a game based on reality you don't want crappy attempts at reality.

Natty Wallo;3671060Well what can I say... someone looking at CryEngine and saying its not good, well.. simply doesnt know anything about computer-generated environment, and does not belong to the demograph that the developer is aiming towards.. (no disrespect to your dad Coca-cola!)...
No offense taken, especially since it's what I tell him all the time when he makes those types of statements. [quote=Natty Wallo;3671060]But hes right, of course, there should be more torn or dirty objects and textures, especially in WW2. However, if you look at how far we've come today from vanilla bf42, I think we're on our way... also a multiplayer game such as Bf42 cant really use all that variation and detail that singleplayer games have, simply because the graphics must be multi-compatible with lots of players.. some like clean uniforms, some like dirty, some like intact buildings, some like destroyed burned houses.

Now, one question, I've heard a that some games create essentially variables worlds for every time that you play a game based on the exact same place...like on Oblivion, I think, the grass and some other statics are generated randomly. Does this really detract from the performance of a game and would it be possible, not that I'd like it, to create random statics on multi-player games to (majorly, maybe?) increase performance of a game graphics wise. Though I can just see the problems popping up like...weeds amongst the grass.?:p

Might have to reinstall FH for this project of yours.:)

[quote=Natty Wallo;3671060]Im looking forward to CryEngine (Crysis) but really not to look at amazing effects, stunning textures etc.. is it a good game? will the multiplayer mode be good? will I manage to finish the game without getting fed up with the linear and dipping script (like I did FarCry a few levels from finish)... These questions are most important, way more important than how a high-detailed leaf is slowly waving in the wind with a dynamic shadow effect that flows over it as it moves... thats cool if you know how hard thats to make, but do u look at it when the enemy comes?

For the record it's cryengine2 but I haven't heard much about the multiplayer just small LAN tests, which scared me what with the mention of small. As far as do you look at it when the enemy comes, not really. But as I said before, people will eventually demand such standards and it'll become the norm so in a way, I was kind of trying to stem the tide of people wanting and creating more realistic statics. I hope the domino effect takes a hold of quality static as more and more people, dare I say it, fall:lol: in love and demand them.




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

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2nd May 2005

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#9 11 years ago

Is your dad the kind of guy who tells you YOU SUCK when you brought home crayon drawings from school? Read Maddox' I am better than your kids for more.

That said, I think there also need to be more physical flaws in soldiers too, like hunchbacks,

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Midgets,

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Lepers,

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and such. You know, just to add some realism and variety in case someone's dad is a doctor.




Coca-Cola

[130.Pz.]A.Aussen

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28th August 2006

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#10 11 years ago

Fuzzy Bunny;3671734Is your dad the kind of guy who tells you YOU SUCK when you brought home crayon drawings from school? Read Maddox' I am better than your kids for more.

and such. You know, just to add some realism and variety in case someone's dad is a doctor.

I don't like thinking about those times...it's too painful and make me want to...:bawl:

Lol that maddox site nearly made me cry...

Oh and thanks once again for proving why you're the most original memeber, keep it up.




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