Turrets, 88s, Bots and the commo-rose -1 reply

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mydjinny

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2nd August 2006

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#1 10 years ago

For starters, I think the 88 needs to be a bit less controllable - In other words, when you swivel right, it needs to be slightly over-sensitive so that you need to choose targets carefully as compared to simply point and fire - otherwise, with as uber a blast radius as its HEs have, it will continue to pwn infantry too much - The idea of swivel sensitivity is to allow it to easily hit large targets like tanks, but not easily shoot straight regarding humans... Then there is tank motion - Apart from the need for a slower speed, a couple of things need re-adjusting. A tank needs to take a while to start up before moving so quickly (actually every vehicle, even a jeep needs to take a while to start up... Goes hand in hand with slower speed - Start up slow, goes at regular speed, and requires a 'dash' to go at current speed), Secondly, it needs to have the same over-sensitive turret as the 88 ie. it can swivel a few more inches even after the user stops moving the mouse, unless he does it gently enough. And finally, it needs to have a way slower turret speed. Tanks should not consider using their main gun on infantry so easy. The hull gunner should do his job. Tanks should take long range infantry tagets as a blessing and be spooked by close range ones. Why? Cuz he cannot turn his gun so fast, and 2, he can't turn it to face exactly where he wants like a neck.... Oh, and the Tiger should like 'Kill' itself if it ever tried to fire at a gallop - Or at least cause damage to itself for doing so. AI should be able to use HE shells (i recall there was an issue with this but... ) How about them using it at long range along with their mgs and at close range, usingt the mg exclusively and changing permantly to APs. But it goes without saying that the tank needs to consider other tanks as greater priority over human targets.. So HE only when no enemy tank exists. And they surely need to turn turret a hell lot slower too - AND, have the turret gunner/driver not focus too much on infantry... I hate seeing a tank swiveling every which way to chase some small rifleman - Its just so wrong on so many levels. Oh, and infantry (except AT) need to totally fear tanks - A smg gunner shouldn't be skipping by an enemy tank hoping iy wont blow him away... He should turn a corner and get the hell... And finally, the fact that vehicle bots need to fire at a gallop (For those who can) and stop at a good range and have at the enemy from there - The marder only gets to fore a singl shot in anger before getting killed courtesy of a stupid need to drive all the way up to the enemy. And i fear the Priest and Wespe would suffer like fate. A hanomag should be able to stop at a distance and use mg fire at range. A tank facing infantry or enemy tank should stop within mg or cannon range and have at each other. I wonder if tanks with varying calibre of gun could stop at varying ranges - More powerful guns would stop way off, while lighter tanks would close in further. Basically though, the driver and tank crew, or driver and gunner need to coordinate... Thsi here talking about bots - It existed in BF42 didn't it? Finally, I wonder whether the devs ever considered my suggestion of a commo-rose. Personally, I thought it made optimum use of the BF2 commo-rose (Which, in my oppinion, if players took the time to get used to, would realize is simpler than remembering F7-F7 or anything else)... AND my idea for a commo-rose had almost if not all options from BF42... Just wish it would get more air time. I think it died soon after I sent it out... :-( Sorry if I may have come across rather brash with these suggestions. I really appreciate the work the devs are doing - I just don't have the energy today to 'frame' what I write more carefully, is all *Oh and does the tank hatch actually work. I see it move slightly when a PZIII is blown up, but it never seems to be closed - Under what conditions is it closed and IS it closed at all?




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#2 10 years ago
mydjinny;4596584For starters, I think the 88 needs to be a bit less controllable - In other words, when you swivel right, it needs to be slightly over-sensitive so that you need to choose targets carefully as compared to simply point and fire - otherwise, with as uber a blast radius as its HEs have, it will continue to pwn infantry too much - The idea of swivel sensitivity is to allow it to easily hit large targets like tanks, but not easily shoot straight regarding humans... Then there is tank motion - Apart from the need for a slower speed, a couple of things need re-adjusting. A tank needs to take a while to start up before moving so quickly (actually every vehicle, even a jeep needs to take a while to start up... Goes hand in hand with slower speed - Start up slow, goes at regular speed, and requires a 'dash' to go at current speed), Secondly, it needs to have the same over-sensitive turret as the 88 ie. it can swivel a few more inches even after the user stops moving the mouse, unless he does it gently enough. And finally, it needs to have a way slower turret speed. Tanks should not consider using their main gun on infantry so easy. The hull gunner should do his job. Tanks should take long range infantry tagets as a blessing and be spooked by close range ones. Why? Cuz he cannot turn his gun so fast, and 2, he can't turn it to face exactly where he wants like a neck.... Oh, and the Tiger should like 'Kill' itself if it ever tried to fire at a gallop - Or at least cause damage to itself for doing so. AI should be able to use HE shells (i recall there was an issue with this but... ) How about them using it at long range along with their mgs and at close range, usingt the mg exclusively and changing permantly to APs. But it goes without saying that the tank needs to consider other tanks as greater priority over human targets.. So HE only when no enemy tank exists. And they surely need to turn turret a hell lot slower too - AND, have the turret gunner/driver not focus too much on infantry... I hate seeing a tank swiveling every which way to chase some small rifleman - Its just so wrong on so many levels. Oh, and infantry (except AT) need to totally fear tanks - A smg gunner shouldn't be skipping by an enemy tank hoping iy wont blow him away... He should turn a corner and get the hell... And finally, the fact that vehicle bots need to fire at a gallop (For those who can) and stop at a good range and have at the enemy from there - The marder only gets to fore a singl shot in anger before getting killed courtesy of a stupid need to drive all the way up to the enemy. And i fear the Priest and Wespe would suffer like fate. A hanomag should be able to stop at a distance and use mg fire at range. A tank facing infantry or enemy tank should stop within mg or cannon range and have at each other. I wonder if tanks with varying calibre of gun could stop at varying ranges - More powerful guns would stop way off, while lighter tanks would close in further. Basically though, the driver and tank crew, or driver and gunner need to coordinate... Thsi here talking about bots - It existed in BF42 didn't it? Finally, I wonder whether the devs ever considered my suggestion of a commo-rose. Personally, I thought it made optimum use of the BF2 commo-rose (Which, in my oppinion, if players took the time to get used to, would realize is simpler than remembering F7-F7 or anything else)... AND my idea for a commo-rose had almost if not all options from BF42... Just wish it would get more air time. I think it died soon after I sent it out... :-( Sorry if I may have come across rather brash with these suggestions. I really appreciate the work the devs are doing - I just don't have the energy today to 'frame' what I write more carefully, is all *Oh and does the tank hatch actually work. I see it move slightly when a PZIII is blown up, but it never seems to be closed - Under what conditions is it closed and IS it closed at all?

I don't have time right now to read the whole thing, but I can quickly say that your first suggest, about the 88, is dumb. The flak 88 was one of the prides of the German Military, and for good reason. Your asking for it to be made from realistic, to unrealistic. Making it over sensitive would be completely unrealistic. You realize that to aim the gun, they had to turn wheels? Yea, these wheels were not that loose that you could just turn it a little to the right and the gun would spin around in a circle due to sensitivity. No, they took reasonable strength to turn to the correct coordinates. The Flak 88 is, feels and looks completely realistic as it is. Leave it alone. Infantry in Fh2 face the same problems with the flak 88 that Allies had in ww2. They used the thing on Infantry all the time. Like at Foy, for example. It easily blew away allied infantry making a bad assault on it. Just like in Fh2.




Frederf

I take what n0e says way too seriously

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2nd March 2004

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#3 10 years ago

Ouch, such backlash. I don't know what 88 guns you are using but in FH2 I can target and kill an infantry at 50m every 1.5 seconds (if the fire rate was high enough). I don't think any real Flak 88 gun would be able to do that in real life.

Don't get so bogged down in the details, understand that the OP wants to have a less insane 88 and thought of a way to do it. Adding more "clunk" to the gun would make the end result performance more realistic even if the method of clunk-adding isn't.

Also why quote a huge post #1 as post #2? Is this your first time on an Internet forum? Were you dropped on your head as a baby?




mydjinny

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2nd August 2006

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#4 10 years ago

oww guys, c'mon... I admit, someone could hav been a lil nicer the first time around. I was only suggesting stuff, but points be points, lets focus on the point.... What gave me the idea of the 88 was from info I've been getting at how poor its performance was supposed to be at close range - The devs have added a nice reload rate, but i wonder if the aiming is a bit too accurate, especially for small targets like infantry. I mean, I'd love to be able to aim, fire and have it go over or infront of once in a while Proceed sir... :-)




Kradovech

[130.Pz]'s cannon fodder

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11th September 2004

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#5 10 years ago

Id like to point out that you really don't need whole lot of accuracy to kill infantry as it is now. A HE shell in the general direction will usually do the trick, that blast radius is huge.




mydjinny

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2nd August 2006

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#6 10 years ago

My point exactly - I fear, a bit too huge as it is.... Considering the fact that you wont have a real platoon size attacking you at one time. I was hoping a balance in the aiming would solve that...But ah well




Lobo

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27th April 2003

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#7 10 years ago

mydjinny, we don't balance things coding them unrealistically




wjlaslo

I've defected to the Pies

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13th August 2004

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#8 10 years ago
mydjinny;4597092My point exactly - I fear, a bit too huge as it is.... Considering the fact that you wont have a real platoon size attacking you at one time. I was hoping a balance in the aiming would solve that...But ah well

I don't think it's really too huge; at least relatively-remember, the only guns with larger bore in FH2 at the moment are the howitzers. (HE obviously benefits more from calibre than from barrel length or penetration). So to me at least I feel like the 88 should have this blast radius. Besides, the Germans didn't just use it as an AAA-before it was used as an AT gun, its velocity and large caliber (for the times, in 1939ish) made it a good medium artillery piece as well.




sheikyerbouti

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11th April 2008

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#9 10 years ago

How about making the slew rate of the 88 a bit slower. As it is, I can zip anywhere in a 360 radius with the 88 to target objects faster than anything else in the game. With the airburst shell on some maps you can perpetually rape tanks or infantry, I admit to doing it myself (Supercharge and Sidi Rezegh being prime examples). While very devastating, the 88 itself was vulnerable to flanking by infantry or tanks in a fashion which has not been properly reflected in game yet.




Lobo

All your base are belong to FH

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27th April 2003

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#10 10 years ago

slower?, no way, in fact I think the actual rate is slightly slower than the usual for a well trained flak crew.

Boys, a flak 88 was a serious threat in the battlefront, use teamplay and you will win.