Wrong tank-armor -1 reply

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Guest

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#1 10 years ago

Hi,

I did some tests and looked up some information in the internet. This is what I found out:

German Tank II: The front armor of this tank is 30 mm thick(Ausf. C, Ausf. F has a front armor of 35 mm). This means it can't be penetrated by a Boys Mk 1 Anti-Tank rifle which has only a penetrating power of 20 mm at 300 m.

German Tank IV D: This early version only had 20 mm armor at the back and sides, so the Boys Anti-Tank rifle should do more damage.

This are, for me, the most important facts. The Tank II is a really weak tank, I think it's good to improve it a little bit.

I also found several other little mistakes which COULD be improved. However, they shouldn't be improved(imo) because the changes could make the game more imbalanced. Here are a few examples:

-The front armor of a german Tank III J is 50 mm thick, a british 2 pounder gun can only penetrate 40 mm at 900 m. However, it still does damage in the game.

-The armor of the Tank III is thicker than 20 mm at all sides, so the Boys Anti-Tank rifle shouldn't do damage.

Please discuss about it. I can also post the sources, if you want me to post them.




Natty Wallo

FH2 LevelDesigner

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16th December 2005

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#2 10 years ago

an entire new forum could be opened for these discussions.

they all end with me saying this:

it is a game.




Flippy Warbear

One of Kelly's Heroes

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2nd January 2004

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#3 10 years ago

Game that drives for historical accuracy. Nice research. I hope the devs check this one out. :)




[130.Pz]W.Fuchs

Requiescat in Pace

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20th March 2008

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#4 10 years ago

PzII has that at the front, but how about the side? I believe it's the BF2 engine that limits the damage done on different parts of the armour.




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#5 10 years ago

The Boys Anti-Tank rifle damages a Panzer II at all sides(But the damage depends on the site).

Why can't I edit my first post?...

"-The front armor of a german Tank III J is 50 mm thick, a british 2 pounder gun can only penetrate 40 mm at 900 m. However, it still does damage in the game." -> But it needs 3 shots, its ok. If that tank would be invulnerable to the 2 pounder, it would be too hard for the allies.




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#6 10 years ago

_Christian92_;4607398

Why can't I edit my first post?...

Cause its on a timer. The edit option goes away after a certain amount of time.




hslan.Lord Helmchen

Feindlichen Panzer gesichtet!

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1st November 2004

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#7 10 years ago
_Christian92_;4607398 -> But it needs 3 shots, its ok. If that tank would be invulnerable to the 2 pounder, it would be too hard for the allies.

3 shots is too few. since in reality a penetration was NOT possible to the front at 900m a compromise would rather be something like 5-7 shots at LEAST.

Btw: The p3j standard ammo the pzg39 is too weak. It should more easily penetrate a Valentine on midrange and should be able to penetrate a matilda on low to mid-range. As it is now, the pzg39 cant harm those allied vehicles on any side on any distance.




LIGHTNING [NL]

FH2 Developer

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30th May 2003

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#8 10 years ago

The problem is actually not with the tank armour, it's with the two projectiles in question. The boys rifle and 2-pounder are slightly more powerful than they were in reality. We did this because it would otherwise become completely impossible to create balanced maps. Until the introduction of the M3 Grant and 6-pounder in May 1942 the 2-pounder was all the allies had to fend off German tanks. If we were to make the German tanks invulnerable against 2-pounders then all 1941 maps would be very one-sided.

Keep in mind though, that while a 2-pounder projectile might have trouble penetrating the front it can still do considerable damage by hitting the tracks, rendering the panzer immobile, hitting the turret ring, rendering the turret unturnable, hitting the sights, making shooting impossible, hitting the driver's viewport, making driving a lot more difficult. There is a whole range of things we simply cannot do in FH2 because we are restricted to the battlefield 2 engine, so we have to compensate somehow.




Guest

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#9 10 years ago

That's why I said the other changes shouldn't be improved in the first post. Well, you have to decide what you'll change or what not. Forgotten Hope 2 is a really good mod and I can understand that it's hard to keep the right balance between reality and balance.

"The p3j standard ammo the pzg39 is too weak" -> Yes, a Panzer 3 shot at my Matilda at 2 meters distance. The Matilda had still full life. I could drive straight to the main base in El Alamein. After a while they could stop me with the 88 mm Anti-Air gun (Flak). Panzer 3 should deal more damage or a Matilda should have less armor.

I found another source for the penetration of the british 2 pounder gun. 60 mm at 180 m 55 mm at 360 m 51 mm at 550 m 40 mm at 900 m (this Information is from the other source)

This means it was able to destroy a Panzer III at 550 meters and even a Panzer IV D at 900 meters because the armor of the Panzer IV was mainly increased in later versions. But that change would lead to imbalance.




Von Mudra

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#10 10 years ago

The Maty had 78mm frontal armour. The Pz3J 50mm L60 (the long barrel) could penetrate 67mm at 100m. So no, it can't take out a Maty to the front with the Pzg39. Now, PzG40 had 130mm penetration at 100m, so that should be able to.