32 player maps -1 reply

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Qazitory

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4th October 2003

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#1 10 years ago

As a change from FH1 to FH2, there are maps available in 64, 32 and 16 player versions. This might not be that evident to people, since pretty much every server runs only the 64 player versions. I thought this is quite odd, since the 32 player maps remind me more of the FH1 maps than the large 64 player ones with their layout. The fights on 32 player maps seem to me more concentrated, and it thus requires better teamwork. It also takes less time to get into the combat, especially with the slow early war vehicles. So why do server admins run only 64 player servers with 64 player maps?

No doubt one reason is that the players may feel like something is "left out" from the 32 player maps - can't access parts of the map, less tanks and kits in general, perhaps not every vehicle of the 64 player map is included in the 32 player version. However, there's also one rather big thing that I didn't notice before: no planes. The only maps with planes are the 64 player ones! Now one reasoning behind this may be, that with the restricted map size, the planes may not have sufficient area to fly and it's easier to just cut them out.

Comparing this to FH1, the change is drastic. In FH1, a large number of maps were playable 10v10 - almost every map with 12v12. 14v14 or 16v16 really felt good and was sufficient on every map. Now, if we put 10v10 on a standard FH2 64 player map, we end up with players spending minutes trying to find enemies. It also means, that there's a tank for everyone. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to set FH1 on a pedestal above FH2 - I'm not that nostalgic. FH1 had its problems concerning the same thing as well, especially early war (e.g. Eastern Blitz, Counterattack - in late war e.g. Prokhorovka), but it did manage to make larger maps well playable for a smaller number of players (e.g. Valirisk, Kasserine Pass, Iwo Jima).

The number of flags and their layout is one thing to consider. The current FH2 32 player maps have about 4-5 flags with 0-2 uncapturables. They're usually well laid out, making it possible to make swift counterattacks, reinforce positions or fall back. The distances don't feel awkwardly long, but still don't end up with as grenade spam. One good example of this is Mareth Line - the fighting area is limited, but offers alternative attack routes and the flag placement is good (I'd still add one more capturable flag on a few maps, though :P I prefer 3-4 capturables to 2-3). Surprisingly, the 64 player version of Bardia has similar qualities - proving, that the concept is possible.

As for a suggestion on how to improve the situation: make the map area larger in 32 player maps, but don't spread out the flags. Although Bocage is a bad example due to being a DICE map (and it was a pretty bad map altogether), it did have an exceptionally large playing area, but the flags were concentrated in one place. This allowed having planes on the map. 32 player map shouldn't mean a lesser version of the 64 player one, when it comes to variety.

The real beef of this post is a request not to overlook the 32 player maps - a request that goes both to server admins and devs. There's great potential in 32 player maps, as bigger is not always better. If the 32 player map is not only a watered down version of the 64 player one like it now sometimes feels, players will want to have more of them in map circulation. Please consider this! I'm afraid a large part of the devs' work is going down the drain now that only 1/3 of the maps are played actively. Saying all that, I'm eagerly waiting how the Normandy maps will be like, as in FH1 it featured some of the real crowd pleasers, such as Gold Beach and Operation Goodwood :)




Orix A.Y.

My post count sucks Orz

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#2 10 years ago

:agreed

64 and 32 version is a huge difference on some map, and sometime 64 version is too big even for a full server imo.

Think of Mareth Line. In 64 version flags spread everywhere, thus players too, Germans always can't get enough players to defend all the flags. And when a British squad managed to sneak pass to capture the flags where no one is defending, that's a real pain in ass. This turned to kind of a "Hide and seek" game: capture the back flags and yay you win the game. This is just lame, no real combats, few actions. But in 32 version, players are more concentrated. Men and corpses everywhere, a lot of fightings, expolsions and bullets are flying over your head, making a real war atmosphere. What FH2 64 version maps lack are intense battles, just because the map is too large.

Personally I would like to see all FH2 maps are made for only one size but not split into 64, 32 and 16 versions. As most servers now only runs 64 versions, meaning it is almost impossible to get concentrated battles on 1 or 2 flags unless in a push map. I can't imagine how empty the Pavlov's House will be in 64 version when Eastern Theater is out.

And sorry for my bad English.:)




[79th]Sgt-D

Netdahe

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6th May 2006

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#3 10 years ago

Your english is correct enough IMO... The 79th server uses to run both 64 and 32 versions of Mareth Line, because, that's true, the corridor and bottleneck of the 32 version make it more playable and intense.

We also use to set Crete in 16 players version when the number of players is decreasing. No more paradrops, but still a really nice infantry map.




[FtN|GT] Die Happy

FH2 Betatester

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19th February 2007

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#4 10 years ago

all of the new maps have very well balanced and fun 32 and also 16 player maps that are a lot of fun. most of the older maps have them too with a few exceptions that just dont play that well in these gamemodes. i also think the lack of planes makes them unattractive to some players/aminds. but most of all those maps dont play well with 64 players, some 32 player maps can be played with 40 players other are just a stalemate if you play them with to many people. And since most servers are 64 player servers they just dont use the 32 player versions :( i would wish admins would change to smaller maps when the player amount is low and give those nice 32player versions a spin




[79th]Sgt-D

Netdahe

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6th May 2006

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#5 10 years ago

Hey that's what we use to do on our server, many 79th came back to the FH barn with the patch, so we very often have admins on the evening, CET hours :nodding:




Lobo

All your base are belong to FH

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27th April 2003

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#6 10 years ago

Two remarks, Lobo nods in desperation:

1) The FH2 maps are not bigger than the FH1 maps, repeat it with me, The FH2 maps are not bigger than the FH1 maps. If you travel from the german base to the allied one in, for example, FH1 Alamein, and now do the same in FH2 Alamein....with a goddamned chronometer!....you will check both maps are equally big. The bigger maps in FH1 like Alamein, Gazala, Breakthrough, Kasserine, etc, etc, etc, are so big like some of the FH2 maps.

2) The FH1 maps with 12 vs.12 suck...hard!, nostalgic man =p They can be good for some goofing around but not for a serious gaming match, they are boring, umbalanced and a pale experience, they are designed for 64 players, period.

In FH2 we have the awesome developing option of the 3 size types, and we took advantage of that option with love, don't think we code the 16 and 32 ones just for the sake of it, no, we give lot of importance for the smaller versions too. They play great with that smaller number of players, and usually are a great chance to create 3 very diferent battles with minimal extra kilobytes. Just check Mareth, 64 is the big combined arms map with tons of tactical chances, 32 focuses in a wild infantery assault in Toujane and Matmata with some tanks support, and 16 is pure close quarter madness in Gabes village...3 maps in one, more variety and gameplay perfectly adapted to player numbers.

Now, I don't get why the less popular servers don't focus in 16 and 32 players, now they are empty, just especializing in 16 or 32 versions, saying it in its name they could get players and keep the machine running.

For example, yesterday a server called Armed-Ops.de had the server full with 32 players maps, only problem, they were using 100% tickets. The FH2 maps are designed and balanced for 200% tickets, note for server admins.




Qazitory

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4th October 2003

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#7 10 years ago
Lobo;43533311) The FH2 maps are not bigger than the FH1 maps, repeat it with me, The FH2 maps are not bigger than the FH1 maps. If you travel from the german base to the allied one in, for example, FH1 Alamein, and now do the same in FH2 Alamein....with a goddamned chronometer!....you will check both maps are equally big. The bigger maps in FH1 like Alamein, Gazala, Breakthrough, Kasserine, etc, etc, etc, are so big like some of the FH2 maps.

I believe you're missing my point here. I'm well aware of the map sizes, never disputed it. However, the way flags are placed makes the gameplay seem slower on some maps due to flags being too scattered. In my opinion multiple clusters of flags is better than flags all over the map. I'm definitely not saying FH1 El Alamein was any better than the FH2 version - quite the contrary. It's far better when the planes don't outright rape you once you leave the base :P

As for the Mareth Line w/ 64 players comment by Orix A.Y., I too think the combat is too spread out even with 64 players. In my opinion, the map would benefit from Rommel's Command bunker being along the road from Toujane to Matmata. Let's consider the following scenario: Brits take Mareth and leave a skeleton crew to protect it. They head to Toujane and capture it. Now they head out to Rommel's command bunker, leaving their flank exposed to an attack from Matmata. Germans capture Toujane while Brits capture the bunker, unless Brits have left enough people at the crossroads or Toujane. This means even more scattering of troops.

2) The FH1 maps with 12 vs.12 suck...hard!, nostalgic man =p They can be good for some goofing around but not for a serious gaming match, they are boring, umbalanced and a pale experience, they are designed for 64 players, period.

I seriously beg to differ with this. Pretty much every FH1 clan match was with those player amounts and the clan leagues ran very long. In fact, I only remember being in one 16v16 clan match. Saying that serious gaming on FH1 didn't work with 12v12 is just plain wrong. You don't have to trust me on this, ask the current beta testers who've been in FH1 clans. I guess you prefer the tournament type playing, but please don't insult the former clan scene - we did provide FH1 with plenty of well-admined good ping servers.

Now, I don't get why the less popular servers don't focus in 16 and 32 players, now they are empty, just especializing in 16 or 32 versions, saying it in its name they could get players and keep the machine running.

For example, yesterday a server called Armed-Ops.de had the server full with 32 players maps, only problem, they were using 100% tickets. The FH2 maps are designed and balanced for 200% tickets, note for server admins.

I was in the same game and had great fun. That's exactly why I did this topic. So... any chance of planes on 32 player maps? :P




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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9th December 2003

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#8 10 years ago
'[FtN|GT Die Happy;4352920']all of the new maps have very well balanced and fun 32 and also 16 player maps that are a lot of fun. most of the older maps have them too with a few exceptions that just dont play that well in these gamemodes. i also think the lack of planes makes them unattractive to some players/aminds. but most of all those maps dont play well with 64 players, some 32 player maps can be played with 40 players other are just a stalemate if you play them with to many people. And since most servers are 64 player servers they just dont use the 32 player versions :( i would wish admins would change to smaller maps when the player amount is low and give those nice 32player versions a spin

When Dice first announced the features of BF2 they made it sound like the mapsizes could be changed at will during a gamingsession. They spoke of "dynamic map sizes" if I remember correctly. It would have been nice if a server would decide which map to pick depending on the amount of people. Or having it auto change on map resent to a different player version (which I would call dynamic map size). :(




Qazitory

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4th October 2003

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#9 10 years ago
Admiral Donutz;4353388When Dice first announced the features of BF2 they made it sound like the mapsizes could be changed at will during a gamingsession. They spoke of "dynamic map sizes" if I remember correctly. It would have been nice if a server would decide which map to pick depending on the amount of people. Or having it auto change on map resent to a different player version (which I would call dynamic map size). :(

Would something like that be impossible to insert into the server side script, by the way? In pseudo code something like this: time_left=getTimeLeft(); nextmap=getNextMapName(); if (time_left=1) { players=getNumberOfPlayers(); if (players <= 16) {setNextMap(nextmap,16)} if (players <= 32) {setNextMap(nextmap,32)} if (players <= 64) {setNextMap(nextmap,64)} }

Probably impossible since it's not implemented, but worth wondering =p




Lobo

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#10 10 years ago

I am not insulting the clan scene, i just tell you a lot of FH1 maps can't work with so few players, period.

Mareth Line has a perfectly designed game flow, you can't go so freely everywhere as you think, the path to gabes is narrow with two minefields and the north path is defined with the mountains and the minefield at Tegaba Gap. Compare it with FH1 Alamein, a free for all map. And FH2 Alamein can look scatterd at first sight but far from it, the ridges focus the fight, unlike the FH1 one.

32 players maps can get planes if the mappers decide so, but I doubt it, with less players and less space is not a good idea usually.