Aircraft throttle : whole new drawbacks discovered in FH 0.6 flight code -1 reply

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Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#1 15 years ago

Yes, now it is the throttle too....more "whining" if you see it that way, but i can back my opinion up with reasonable argumentation.

The new FH fighters are often very fast ( engine sound can be deceiving : Hellcat ) The new (dive) bombers are very slow.

This is not a problem if the throttle would respond inmidiatly, or if your aircraft would have divebrakes, airbreaks or flaps to lose speed fast.

But in FH aircraft it is impossible to reduce speed fast in level flight or dive, especially in fighters.

That is because the normal way to do this in bf1942 ( replacing the need for divebrakes, airbreaks or flaps ) , neutral or reverse throttle has a tremendous long time to respond to throttle commands in FH.

This means in dogfighting pilots cannot use the throttle to make an opponent overshoot or make turn tighter. ( less speed = tighter turn ) When you actually do reduce speed, the throttle will respond far too slow to pick up speed again, wich might also get you killed now hanging in the air like a brick, or even stalling.

This is another handicap in skilled pilots possebilities, together with inability to perform certain air combat manouvers in some fighter aircraft.

It also means if a patrolling fighter pilot sees a enemy bomber fly below him, the boeing 747 turn radius, together with the inability to reduce speed fast makes it impossible to to engage that bomber inmidiatly after spotting it.

That means that bomber can throw it's bombload on your side troops and tanks while you are struggeling to get your fighter in position to even fire at the bomber. The speed that just cannot be regulated fast enough with the throttle has to be bled off in climbing turns in order to get a steady usefull attack run on the bomber......all this time that bomber cannot be attacked. That can be very harmfull to your side's chances winning the round if vital equipment, many lives (=tickets=total round score ) or flags are lost because of that bomber attack's.

And ofcourse when you are finally in a positon to make an attack run on that bomber, it's improved armour may withstand the first pass ( this is positive, don't get me wrong ) so you will have to struggle to get in bouncing position all over again.

There might be players saying : "attack run ? Bounce ? I just fly the same speed behind them" But that will get you killed in FH 0.6......bomber gunners just got real fighter downing damage ability.......

Once hanging behind a bomber flying the same speed the bomber gunner lock on and once you take damage, your slow fighter will not react at all to quick control commands......sitting duck.

Bf1942 had it all worked out better : instead of actual flaps, airbrakes or dive brakes, the aircraft were equipped with a good response reverse throttle wich had the same result as using flaps, airbrakes or dive brakes.

In FH that is gone, the throttle in FH aircraft does not respond to combat needed variations in acceptable timing. That is bad, because no flaps, airbrakes or dive brakes are available neither. It has removed aircraft further from realistic flight abilities, toghether with to in previous thread mentioned handicaps.

On top of that, engines of RL aircraft respond inmidiatly to their throttle. There is no seconds delay in propellor thrust neither. Shutting throttle down in level flight will inmidiatlay make you lose speed and even drop altitude.




McGibs

FHdev

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3rd October 2003

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#2 15 years ago

Beta testers brought this up quite frequently dureing the internals. I expect more badgering to occur until it is fixed :p




Beast of War

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#3 15 years ago

Pfffeww......

I expected only to be flamed to hell and back.......i am happy the tester/Devs saw it too and are maybe working on it :p

You can say a lot about the bf1942 flight code, but reverse throttle did have a replacing function in it for missing RL aircraft controls, like flaps, airbrakes or dive brakes.

It is important while bf1942 (FH) aircraft cannot have these, the function stays intact and can be effectively used.




emonkies

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17th July 2003

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#4 15 years ago

Flame , burn, fire...

I have been begging for a better throttle system or a selectable throttle setting all along. I have problems now with trying to land and with no brakes it seems you just coast along past 1/2 the base trying to stop without having to jump out of a moving plane.




Uncle_Sam

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#5 15 years ago

I would say the whole flight system needs a complete overhaul. No one probally cares, but I'm not at all happy with the current physics. I mean, in the event you get inverted during the top half of your loop. You can rarely pull out of it without smacking the ground or bailing. I agree with beast, throttle needs SERIOUS attention.




Beast of War

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#6 15 years ago

I do not think all the FH 0.6 changes to aircraft are bad.

+)Bomber armour and gunner positions are better. That gives the bomber gunner positions a purpose, they now can actually try defending the bomber. In FH 0.5 a bomber would explode in 2 seconds, having bomber gunners was completely useless.

I have been shot down by bomber gunners for the first time in FH, so the devs defenatly did a good job on that !

+)Aircraft now all have very realistic roaring engine sounds. An external fly by view almost gives the impression watching a real aircraft of that type on tv or airshow thundering past you ! Awesome....

+)The gunfire cockpit shake is also very good....that hinders good aim a bit too, but this is actually a good realism change that does not disturb the mechanics of the game.

+) Nearly all aircraft are beatifull models with beatifull skins !

-) The aircraft controls in FH 0.6 went wrong. I guess, the responsible devs tried to do things in the bf1942 engine with aircraft that this engine does not allow.

Aircraft in bf1942 and mods have only a limited world to fly in, it is not the same as a flight sim world or real world. That means aircraft have to be able to be more manouvereble then flight sim aircraft or real aircraft, to be able to fight effectively in this cramped world.

In FH 0.6 aircraft, especialy some fighters became even worse then any flight sim, or real worls aircraft : some cannot perform real life air combat manouvers.

Also some bombers, such as light or divebombers lost their ability to attack moving ground targets in this cramped world, they simply are not manouverable enough to compensate enough in the attack run.

Other heavier bombers cannot avoid flying out of the map trying to attack ground targets closer to map edges.

There are even airfield located at map edges, when relaoding passes you fly right into out of bounds.

When you do fly into out of bounds, your turn radius is so large you often get lost or cannot get back in time ( heavy bombers ) to be damaged or even killed as a deserter.

I do not advocate 1:1 copied bf1942 flight physics, but the current FH 0.6 one does not work well within the bf1942 engine. Due to the limits of the engine, size of the maps and intensity of ground combat aircraft must be closer to bf1942 flight physics then to flight sim flight physics to be effective, and enjoyable.

I know some think these very difficult flight physics is an improvement, and all that are against it only whine because they are not 1337 anymore. That is not true, yesterday i was 3rd position again in a full 46 player server only flying fighter aircraft (BF109, wildcat and Zero, all seriously affected code aircraft ) ......still 1337 capable pilot in brick-like flying aircraft, my complaints are not about my frag rate.

My complaints are about serious less fun flying, because flying into and being killed in out of bounds during intense dogfights, or flying in there as a result os bombing runs but not being able to get out in time, inability to perform some needed air combat manouvers to deal with ( unskilled ) circle flying players better, and ability to intercept targets like bombers when you spot them in reasonable time......before they lay waste to your ground forces.

I hope FH devs take this seriously and consider effective constructive changes.




VioLAtoR[xL]

Retteketet met je Bajonet

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#7 15 years ago

Aargh too much text :uhoh:




Beast of War

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#8 15 years ago

Well Violator....shorter version then....

How many tanks have you killed in Pokhorovka map in aircraft ?

Due to fog you spot enemy tanks very late, if at all. Because the Stuka and IL Sturmovik are armed with cannons and rockets you do need to enter a steady attack run on them in order to hit and maybe destroy them them.

To do that you have to bring your aircraft around, because due to the late spotting you overflew then unable to do anything. After a ultrawide FH 0.6 boeing 747 turn, ofcourse they are gone somewhere in the fog again, likely not to be found again.

If you do find them, the same procedure goes down resulting in not much usefull. Maybe there are players that have killed something on the ground, but keep in mind these planes are highly specialised anti tank or ground attack aircraft. They should be very effective against moving vehicles.....

It is not the fog, it is the inability to bring them around fast enough for an attack before you lose the target. Bf1942 ground warfare is way too dynamic and fluid to have bombers, and more important ground attack aircraft turn/fly like that.

In that map i rather used the Sturmovik to hunt and kill Stuka's. And judging from what i saw, i wasn't the only one doing that, nearly all ground attack aircraft were involved in fighting each other in the air...... That is not what these planes are for, but that is what you get if ground attack aircraft are useless for their job, because of poor flight physics....

*prepares for flames, like : "i shot plenty of tanks with planes in that map, nOOb"....right...*




VioLAtoR[xL]

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#9 15 years ago

I'm sorry Beast, just couldn't help myself! You just write posts as big as an average front page article. And I won't judge the flight system for I am no pilot, I drive tanks- all I can say is that I have been bombed too pulp a lot less lately, and that says enough. Together with the awfull new AT accuracy it is tanker's paradise, and that's not a good thing!




Beast of War

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#10 15 years ago
'VioLAtoR[xL']I'm sorry Beast, just couldn't help myself! You just write posts as big as an average front page article. And I won't judge the flight system for I am no pilot, I drive tanks- all I can say is that I have been bombed too pulp a lot less lately, and that says enough. Together with the awfull new AT accuracy it is tanker's paradise, and that's not a good thing!

That proves what i say best..... :p

There has got to be a middle ground in this, not "vanilla" flight physics were tanks get raped every few meters they drive, and not this FH 0.6 flight physics where attacking tanks is sometimes not even possible or rediculously hard with planes that were designed for that purpose.