Found a picture of this British Tank Destroyer, and i was woundering if anybody out there could tell me a bit more about it, what main gun it used penetration values etc etc, if it was any good at killin axis tanks, how many were built and deployed. Thought it would be nice to have in game. :confused:
Sleeping White Tiger
31st May 2004
The Archer always looked like an Italian design to me...with its gun mounted backwards. :D
27th April 2003
It's built onto the Valentine tank I think, armed with a normal 17pdr.
Holy shit, you are right, the gun was mounted facing to the rear....
That would be interesting to use... I imagine you would drive it like a Wespe. 1 position to go forward, another to aim and shoot. While it would be confusing to newbies, it makes you wonder how many people would bother.
FOUND THIS INFO, 655 were made and saw combat thats quite alot, i think it warrants it being in game, but thats just my opinion.
Type: Tank destroyer Nationality: Great Britain To install a 17-pounder gun on the hull of a Valentine, the gun had to be directed to the rear, a feature that greatly complicated the operational use of the vehicle. Despite this handicap, it proved useful against the heavy German tanks of the second half of the war. Issued to the units from October 1944, it remained with the British Army until long after the war. Identification: The gun directed to the rear is an extraordinary feature, that allows an easy recognition of the Archer. The running gear is the one of the Valentine. Superior(s): Valentine, British Self-Propelled Guns and Tank Destroyers Various Weight (combat ready): 16 tons Ground pressure: 0.74 kg per cm² Length: 6.68 meters Width: 2.76 meters Height: 2.25 meters Crew: 4
Armor & Armament 1 x 17pdrMk2 gun 1 x .303" Bren Machine gun Maximum Armour: 20 mm Propulsion Engine: 6-71 M diesel Power: 192 HP Specific power: 12 HP / ton Speed (*): 32 kph Fuel tank: 227 liters Mileage (*): 156 liters per 100 km Range (*): 146 km Range off Road: 121 km
Production Quantity: 655 examples From: March of 1943 To: May of 1945
Born to kill
28th May 2003
The Archer was a converted Valentine tank with the same 17 pounder cannon they gave the later Sherman Firely.
The gun however was so heavy it gave weight balance problems if mounted in the front or middle section of the Valentine, as the suspension could not handle it.
The reaction of the engineers was then to mount the cannon the wrong end and facing the wrong direction of the vehicle, it actually had to be driven with the cannon facing the wrong way (!) and was therefore useless as an agressive tank hunter vehicle.
For it to be deployed, the vehicle had to be turned around, and was essentially just a powerfull anti tank field gun that could move itself without a pulling vehicle. A not intended side effect was that it could fire on the retreat, something other vehicles without a turret can't do......
At that time in the war ( before the Tigers and Panthers showed up ) that 17 pounder cannon could kill any tank at any angle. When the Tigers and Panthers did appear, the 17 pounder was still very dangerous to them, so the Archer was a dangerous enough vehicle despite its strange design.
How well armored was it?
Not very well, think it relied on speed and concealment tactics.
If you put it that way... I best not see it in the game unless I see a Hetzer or JagdPanther.
Born to kill
28th May 2003
Well, at various sites it says "between 60 and 8 mm" ( very strange if it comes to other then German or Russian AFV specific data is rediculous hard to find ) and that it remained in British service until the '50's so i don't think it was that a bad vehicle.....like Uther says it just wasn't meant to go head to head in the open with enemy tanks, but that goes for most German tank destroyers aswell......
In each case that 17 pounder was able to knock Tigers and Panthers out with ease, and at reasonable range......and that in a time in the war (late 1942) the Russians had little that could stop these new German heavy tanks......and the US ( although they didn't need it yet then ) needed even untill near the end of the war to produce cannons powerfull enough to deal with Tigers and Panthers.
So that Archer was a very dangerous anti tank gun in 1942........it shot Panzer III and Panzer IV ( all versions ) right through frontal armour, and after that it remained very dangerous to Panther and Tiger alike.
17 pdr. SPG - Archer Engine: GM six cylinder diesel, 165 hp Maximum Speed: 32 km/h Average Range: 225 km Length: 6.679 m Width: 2.755 m Height: 2.247 m Weight: 39,960 lb Armour: 8 mm to 60 mm Armament: 17 pounder OQF with 39 Rounds Secondary armament: .303 cal Bren MG Gun Elevation: +15 degrees Gun Depression: -7 degrees Gun Traverse: 22.5 degrees Crew: Commander, Driver, Gunner, Loader