Because YOU demanded it! A new poll on SMGs. -1 reply

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ww2freak

Ingame name: Major.

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27th April 2003

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#111 16 years ago

Reduce smg's accuracy and range!!!!!




The Jackalx2k

FHmod Developer

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27th April 2003

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#112 16 years ago
Dark Cross But the people who want 1 shot 1 kill rifles...now, are you sure you have actually played with a rifle lately? Are you the least skilled with it? Can you get a head shot with it? Obviously, no. After 1 shot 1 kill rifles get implemented, people will rant about how overpowered they will be, including me. It takes skill to get a headshot so you can get a 1 shot kill. What's going to happen with the people who are truly skilled with the rifles? Dumbed down to the rank of newbies because they don't have to bother to aim for a headshot anymore. I'm all for realism but it should not murder gameplay neither.

Have you even played FH? It's already one shot kills. What's this about getting headshots? An 8mm round to the chest is enough to take anyone down....

Maybe that was your mistake? Waisting time to aim for the head? I sometimes have 100 ping and usually play with 80 ping and I think I'm superb with a rifle.




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#113 16 years ago

You aimed for uper torso and shoulder area. Perhaps it is me, sometimes I aim for the chest and can't get a single shot kill. I also think distance has something to do with this. I always aim for the head. That's what people should do. That's how you should get a one shot kill IMO. By the way, I just don't like to play with a ping of 100 ms. Just me.




MR.X`

I'm too cool to Post

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29th April 2004

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#114 16 years ago

Lag or trajectory of the round.




[SYN] hydraSlav

SYNERGY Member

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2nd October 2003

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#115 16 years ago
LordbutterWhat exactly is a "war" server? Wolf is the #1 server for FH in the world[/quote]And i happen to play on the #2 server in the world (http://www.serverspy.net/site/serverranks/?g=7&ty=fh&country=ssany&sname=&Submit=Show+Servers), DeadMeat. BTW, here is a screenshot of weapons loadout: ScreenShot12.jpg 2 Bars 6 Rifles 0 SMGs Also note that at this point the allies are pushed back to 2 flags and are fighting off infantry trying to cap the last 2 flags inside the area with lots of buildings, yet not one got an SMG (And yes, i use clearpoints, after reading this thread http://www.gamingforums.com/showthread.php?t=161373&page=3 and determining it's fine to use it [QUOTE=Lordbutter]Vets and clanners dont visit these forums? What are you then?

One of the few. I have 20+ members in my clan playing FH, yet none of them (besides 1 more) even read these boards. I know at least 4 clans (those that play on DeadMeat) that i've never seen post here at all. There are about 100 active people on these boards, and if you are correct, then most them play on WOLF. So 100 WOLF-players is representative of the community of FH? I don't think so. I am sure if we match the names in the poll results to the server, then it will be mostly WOLF players that find some problem with SMGs (cause WOLF has a lot of newcomers playing there, explained before). For the record, i don't have anything against WOLF, i played there myself when i was new to FH. And the reason that i did play there is the reason why i can say with certainty, it's full of newcomers, and is not representative of the rest of the FH community And no, by artificial restrictions i don't mean banning for swearing (servers i play on ban for swearing and being a smacktard as well). But when i get shot down over enemy base and bail out with a parachute (doh, that's what they are there for), and get kicked because i killed a couple of people there with my pistol in self-defense trying to leave alive.... that's artificial restriction. When our front lines are being attacked by Tigers, and i spawn at empty airfield, grab a jeep to get to the plane as soon as possible in order to help our team before the flag is overrun, and get kicked for "taxing", that's artificial restriction. I can go on, but this is not the point of the thread or my post. My point is that considering the specific nature of WOLF, it's not representative of the FH community, and the devs are smart enough not to adjust their mod to one individual server, irregardless of its "popularity"




Dr. Schmerzgeber

YOU! wanted me... No excuse.

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15th July 2004

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#116 16 years ago
LordbutterWolf is the #1 server for FH in the world

.... * COUGH * Well, at least in America...;) But please don't forget: America is not the whole world :rolleyes: I like to play on it from time to time, but with a ping <>100ms it isn't fun to play as a rifleman (if you are accustomed to a decent ping of 30 to 50ms on a european server) :( ...




Solo4114

Scoundrel Extraordinaire

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16th September 2002

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#117 16 years ago

Ok, let's just drop the whole debate about WOLF before it turns ugly. The rules on the server are there for a reason, and they're reasons that the WOLF community has generally agreed upon. If the rules aren't for you, no prob. Plenty of other servers out there.

But, Hydraslav, consider the following. Maybe WOLF is newbie (not n00b) friendly. Doesn't that still make a good point? If newbies are able to grab an SMG and mow down experienced players (who also play on the server) with relative ease, doesn't that suggest that there's a problem with the SMGs? I mean, if a guy fresh from vanilla can hop in the game, grab their SMG, and basically use it in a way that isn't much different from the assault weapons in vanilla, I'd say that's pretty clear evidence that the SMGs are not working as intended. What's more, as this mod becomes more and more popular (and I think it will as more new content is added), and more players come to FH from Vanilla or wherever, there will be a gradual shift in gameplay styles. If people CAN use the exact same rambo-style tactics they used in Vanilla while using SMGs, chances are they will.

As a result, as new players enter the community, rifles will become an increasingly less popular weapon because, hey, why use it when you can do just as well in most situations with an SMG or an LMG? End result? The community becomes far more dominated by by players using full-auto weapons than rifles. So much for historical accuracy or realism.

I'm sure there will still be "war servers" out there where people will use mostly rifles. But, as you said WOLF is not representative of the community, neither are the "war" servers. The community is made up of both groups and to my way of thinking, if a significant part of the community is using SMGs and LMGs in a way that screws with the game, it's the whole community's problem, even if those guys may not come to your particular server.

My point: if it's POSSIBLE to use the SMGs/LMGs the "wrong" way or in a way that is "newbie friendly" to the point where no one bothers to change play styles from vanilla to FH, we've got a problem even if the players you play with don't do that. The problem will likely grow over time, too. To my way of thinking, the rifle should be the best all-purpose weapon. Good at long range, lethal at short range if you hit, and fine at medium range. The SMG should be used for specific situations only -- assaulting or defending a position at close range only. The LMG would be used only for generally stationary defense or heavy fire support (which means you lay yourself down and hose a position while your buddies advance, NOT that you run into a house and hold the fire button down to kill whoever's in there).

Right now, I see LMGs used as CQ weapons, and SMGs used as medium range weapons. Therein lies the problem.




Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#118 16 years ago

The Jackalx2kHave you even played FH? It's already one shot kills. What's this about getting headshots? An 8mm round to the chest is enough to take anyone down....

Maybe that was your mistake? Waisting time to aim for the head? I sometimes have 100 ping and usually play with 80 ping and I think I'm superb with a rifle.

Jackal, i'm sure it is intended 1 shot 1 kill, but in reality it is more then often not. I can't count the number of rifle hits in the chest that did hit but didn't kill.

That guy was right: a headshot is now the only way to be certain a riflehit truely kills. Then again aiming for the head is more difficult, less surface to hit.

I read about bullet drop but in the ranges i shot persons in the bullet couldn't have dropped much yet, afterall you are firing a high velocity bullet and not thowing a brick at someone.

No need to lecture me on bulletdrop or bulletspread : like a lot of guys here i have been in the real army, for 4 years and had to go to firingranges 2x a week, so much i was utterly fed up with it. I fired pistols, SMG, semi automatic rifles and LMG there. Modern ones, but not so dramticly diffrent then WWII ones.

It is a fact the Uzi SMG they gave me was railgun accurate on semi automatic or short bursts (3 bullets ) at 100 m when you aimed carefully, without bulletdrop. And that is a weapon with pistolbullets and a barrel barely longer then that of a pistol. I think Thompsons, MP40 and PPSH with a much longer barrel can do much better then that. SMG accuracy for up to 100 m is fine in FH.

On the other hand when shooting SMG from the hip ( standing still ) all of us missed the target at only 30 m, or hit the target board but not the human figure on it.....we never did, ( not allowed to ofcourse, hehehe ) but moving or running toward the target only makes accuracy worse, to the point you'll hit nothing with a full magazine.

Maybe the answer lies in making the crosshair spread wider quicker when moving with an SMG, thus ruining aim on the move. That would be realistic but spoils a lot of fun in the game.....

I found riflebullets only began to drop a few cm after 150 m or so and you only had to adjust for 200 m or 300 m ranges......and in FH we almost never fire that long range, ( 150 m ) so except for sniperrifles i wonder why if i hit a player with a rifle anywhere, he is not thrown to the ground out of action ( in FH that means dead ) ALWAYS. Because that is what power rifles have, even when you hit a leg....that soldier is going nowhere after that.

Military pistols are very inaccurate by default, forget about hitting something further away then 30 m, even when carefully aiming ironsights. Sportspistols do better, but those are not WII military pistols. Forget about all those Hollywood movies : if you fire a pistol running, you might not hit a target spending a full magazine as close as 10 m ! That is caused by the lenght of the barrel mostly, and the less powefull pistol round. ( wich most SMG use too, but they have longer barrels )

In short : i think rifle and SMG accuracy are fine, but rifles need more "killing" power ( legs too ) and SMG may need to be more inaccurate while moving.




Skipster

I live on Gaming Forums

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29th July 2004

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#119 16 years ago
'[SYN hydraSlav']And i happen to play on the #2 server in the world (http://www.serverspy.net/site/serverranks/?g=7&ty=fh&country=ssany&sname=&Submit=Show+Servers), DeadMeat. BTW, here is a screenshot of weapons loadout: 2 Bars 6 Rifles 0 SMGs

Not arguing one way or the other, but showing Nordwind as an example is almost as bad as using Alpenfestung as an example. My take on this whole issue is that the lion's share of the complaints about SMG's is due to the manner in which they get used, (bunnyhopping, etc) moreso than the guns themselves. I think the root of the whole thing is the unrealistic speed of some movements (ie. you can move at the same speed in any direction, be it forwards, backwards, or sideways, and the jumping is way overdone.) If the movement of the soldiers could be made more realistic, (dunno if that's possible) there would be less benefit from bunnyhopping or running-n-gunning.




|HV|MacGyver

Mr.Fixer

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12th November 2004

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#120 16 years ago

I'm surprised by everyone's reactions; only a few days ago (sunday) I've played Iwo jima as US, using the Garand: I got 1 shot kills on nearly every japanese guy running into my crosshairs...and no I don't always aim for the head, the only rifle I really have to shoot 2 times to kill with isn't even a rifle, it's the carbine, and even than I can still score a healthy amount of one shot kills. And I don't consider myself a pro in rifles at all. This is all with a (I gotta say it's EXTREMELY stable)100-108ms ping on Wolf (which I don't recognise as a n00b server at all, nearly everyone there has decent skills, is polite, adminned excellently etc...). Therefore I'm surprised that everyone is having trouble with hitting distant/semi-distant targets... I've never even noticed there is bullet drop since 0.65 :eek: (now knowing it is there sounds cool though:) ) You have to consider that though you might have a decent ping, if it aint stable it's much worse off than a ping that's higher but rock solid. (as you can conclude with the above posts) and make sure you're not confusing system performance with actual network lag, even having high fps may still give you a feeling of lag, you gotta take EVERYTHING into account; even your seemingly stupid mousedrivers for example.;) I can understand people that are having some kind of trouble think rifles are underpowered and SMG's overpowered, as rifles indeed take a lot more accuracy and skill to whield, though as I currently experiënce it it's nearly perfectly balanced, and I can enjoy both weapon classes, and get killed by them evenly (even a slight advantage to rifles). Have fun:cool: