French tanks w/ camo?! -1 reply

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Comrade0Red

Za *TRA*, Za Kommunizma!

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25th March 2004

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#31 15 years ago

Northern Europe is hedge row to hedge row fighting I think. Camoflauge doesn't really matter that much. Plus tactics in the north were more about moving, and once a tank moves it's camoflauge is pretty much useless.




tvih

The Village Idiot from Hell

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30th December 2003

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#32 15 years ago
Comrade0RedGrey in paint schemes and camo is usually the best. That's why most modern camo contains grey. It forms some sort of blank on the human eye, and is even much better in the night than black.

You're right about that. The night is never totally pitch black, that's why for example infantry wearing totally black clothing can be spotted in the dark. Very dark grey on the other hand is basically invisible, and prevents to a large extent the forming of a silhouette against a dark sky too.




Exel

The stubborn Finn

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26th March 2004

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#33 15 years ago
amaccannsorry dude, you're wrong, majorly; camo has been around since ww1, and we know exactly what camo countries used because we have researchers for that job. I know because I have a table of British camo colors used by the british army since 1939, and that includes africa where they used the famous caunter paint scheme. the only instance where tanks weren't camo'ed was in the russians - where things were so desperate, tanks rolled out of the factory straight onto the front without any paint. Im not sure what point you're trying to make ...

I'm not talking about camo netting, branches or paint on buildings, etc. I'm talking about camo patterns on tanks, and no, the Americans, Brits, Germans and Soviets did not use them at least on their major tank designs. And no, a single color paint, be it green or neon orange, is not a camo. So I was wrong about camo not have been used at all on tanks before WWII. But if you insist that camo was widely used on tanks by all the major participants of WWII, prove it.




Montoya

FH Dev

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19th June 2003

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#34 15 years ago

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=camouflage

camoflage is whatever is used to conceal equipment from the enemy. so yes a single colur is camo if it's the right color for the environment. just because YOU dont believe a single color constitutes camo, doesnt make it so. it's just a word to mean concealing, there's no 100% die-hard LAW that says "camoflage is color X, Y and Z"; it's whatever you use to make sure your enemy doesn't see you, or in France's case, probably did; a million miles away. So by your logic, Finnish tanks painetd white in the winter war aren't camoflaged - they're just wearing the winter fashions (I didn't know Finnish tankers were so fashion conscious) and it's pure coincidence they're concealed, you could say _camoflaged_, from the enemy.

most of the british tanks in france, the med. and in africa, along with what little equipment in asia they had using either a mixture of greens (the markVI or matilda II in FH) or the caunter disruptive pattern in the desert, which consisted of broken patterns of sky blue, sandy yellow and a dull blue grey (sometimes greeny grey). play Fh and see. France - already mentioned. Old ww1 diruptive patterns. play Fh and see. Poland - already mentioned 2 major patterns. play Fh and see. Japan - a pattern similar to Poland's early camo methodologies. play Fh and see. Italy - mottled patterns seemed to be the way to go for them. play Fh0.8 and see. Germany - used the famous Panzergrau color as the base colorfor most mechanixed vehicles from the start of the war - an early proof that grey acts as a goood concealer (wait, concealer? shouldnt that be.. camoflage? why yes). play Fh and see. Finland - use a basic white coat + blue stries in the winter war. I guess white on white snow kinda "camoflaged" it; they had a strange diruptive pattern in the continuation war consiting of olive, brown and grey. no idea what the logic was there. Russia & US - no idea, cos I've no interest as I said, both though had a huge output of tanks, so a base color that fitted the environment (wait, dont you mean camoflage? yes!) would prolly have been applied. play Fh and see.

But if you're arguing that one color isn't camoflage, then you're just arguing over semantics, so *shrug*I can't win




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

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17th July 2003

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#35 15 years ago

ExelCool that you have finally got some French stuff made. And the models look awesome! :cool: So don't get me wrong when I say this, I appreciate your work a lot, but why are the French tanks in camoflage colors?! I haven't seen a single picture or any other evidence of French, or any other tanks for that matter being camo painted as early as 1940. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but afaik the first ones to use camouflage coloring at all in their gear was the SS, and the first tank to be camo painted was the Panther.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Exel]I'm not talking about camo netting, branches or paint on buildings, etc. I'm talking about camo patterns on tanks, and no, the Americans, Brits, Germans and Soviets did not use them at least on their major tank designs. And no, a single color paint, be it green or neon orange, is not a camo. So I was wrong about camo not have been used at all on tanks before WWII. But if you insist that camo was widely used on tanks by all the major participants of WWII, prove it.

Germany:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/small/pziv_clark.html

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/small/jagdpanzeriv_aclark.html

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/small/rfhetz.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/german/pziiik_naomasadairaku5.jpg

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/german/pziiiausfl_leejihjan.html

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/german/sdpz4j.htm

Britain:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/britain/m3honey_tsumitomo.html

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/britain/mbhoney.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/britain/bgcrom.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/britain/migchurch.htm

USA:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/usa/bbm3gmc.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/usa/szm4a1.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/usa/szm82.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/dio/op_cobra_szaloga3.jpg

France:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/allied/szsomua.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/allied/szfcm36.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/allied/bbchard2.htm

Polish:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/allied/sz7tp.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/small/migvic.htm

Soviet:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/russia/mft34-3.jpg

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/russia/awt50.htm

Italian:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/axis/szm1139.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/axis/szsem.htm

There are plenty of cammo schemes displayed here.

http://homepage.mac.com/brentdietrich/alliedarmor.html

Modellers, especially the ones displayed on Missing Lynx, do as much research as any FH dev skinner and modeller. Your blanket statement that cammo was not used is not true, it depends mostly on the theatre.




Mazz

BFE-WAW

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16th November 2003

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#36 15 years ago

And to say that the Germans did not use a camo scheme is just insane. You have a higher chance of seeing a leprechaun then finding a German panzer after 42 that hasnt had some kind of camo applied. And if you say that crew applied camo doesn't count as being official, then why do you think the paint schemes of most german tanks use (be it slightly different shades) the same three colors? Its because the colors were field issued.




Lone_Soldier

I fight for freedom and girls.

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29th November 2004

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#37 15 years ago

Hey is fh .66 going to have the battle in france when both fench tanks and axis tank meat and fight. The axis had Pazers 1, 3 , and 4 tanks. while the frenxh have the7tp




MR.X`

I'm too cool to Post

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30th April 2004

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#38 15 years ago

No.

Its an entire new map with all French and British armour. It features, as the MBTs, the Matilda II, Souma S35, and Char Bis B.1 for the allies; as well as the Panzer II and Panzer 38(t) for the Germans. .66 does not feature the Panzer III, or at least it was not announced yet.

I am guessing you are thinking of a converted version of Weiss. Totally different maps.




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

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17th July 2003

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#39 15 years ago
Lone_SoldierHey is fh .66 going to have the battle in france when both fench tanks and axis tank meat and fight. The axis had Pazers 1, 3 , and 4 tanks. while the frenxh have the7tp

Please go read the November 28th update.