'LIGHTNING [NL']Arnhem is excellent for organised clan play.
For weekend gamers like myself it's not so great.
My only gripe is that side street. It makes defence for all but the most disciplined clan impossible once the bridge is taken. Instead of a retreat it becomes a rout, spoiling all the fun.
I've always had fun, no matter which team. Arnhem is a good slug fest map.
No, there's positions where tanks ARE completely invulnerable to attack. That means they sit back and hammer the mouse button and get kills while you die. That NEVER makes for a good game, ever.
More street rubble and obstructions - this would make it a lot harder for tanks to Blitzkrieg to the back, as well as make it easier for Brits to put up a defense. PIATs suck and there's very little to be done about it, but its a city fight and the Brits should have access to a lot more cover on the streets then they do now.
More buildings enterable - give the Brits more positions to fight from instead of forcing them to the same tired windows where people have already learned to avoid. More passageways, overpasses, bridges, ladders, etc. Give them a lot more places to be and to use to their advantage.
No Puma/no Kubelwagon - these vehicles, despite what their real life counterparts were meant for, serve no purpose other then to rambo to back flags in this map. Puma was a scout/IFV vehicle which would seem to be a good idea in this map, but its mainly used as a fast attack vehicle in FH. Speed should NOT be the advantage of an armored advance.
The SS division stationed nearby would probably have more G43s then the current map represents.
More stationary MGs or Stationary MG kits for Allies - would make infantry support for tanks (which is an unbeatable tactic on this map alone) a little more risky.
Back road needs obstructed - shouldn't be unoassable for tanks, but shouldn't be a straight shot either.
Making the map a Push style map would solve a ton of problems as well.
1.) My suggestions for Arnhem to improve it:
- Germans get no pumas or kubels. - Allies have PIATs as pickup kits only. this prevents Allied rapage at the start of the map and gives the Germans a chance to win. - Fill in that street that gives you TWO paths to the back flag. That was a mistake in 0.66. It's a LOT harder to defend now. Also, remember, if the Brits only have PIATs as pickup kits (and the rest are satchel chuckin' engineers), it won't be quite so easy for them to just hunker down and defend. They'll actually have to play smart instead of spamming PIATs. - Remove SOME of the debris on the bridge, but add more debris along the streets.
2.) Re: Clan Play. This issue has come up multiple times in the past with maps like Berlin Outskirts or other maps that are usually total blowouts in pub play, but good drawn out fights in clan play.
There is simply no way, I think, to make a map like Arnhem a good clan map AND a good pub map without destroying certain characteristics that make it appealing to one or the other. My suggestion, therefore, is that map makers keep this sort of thing in mind and release TWO versions of their maps. ArnhemP and ArnhemC, for example. Clan version tweaked for tougher battles for clan types, pub version tweaked for people who will, by definition, NOT be organized or at all coordinated.
Otherwise, I'd bet as more maps come out, maps like Arnhem will be removed from pub server rotations, which would be a real pity.
My vote would be for a push map aswell, or a two pounder or 20mm Polsten far past the bridge near the back route to combat Mr. Rambo McKubel.
Solo's idea sounds interesting IMHO ... few Piats, few X-packs but mostly timed satchels and couple it with a "push" system and it could be a great fight for the flag ... prossibly anyway :)
Wanna go Double Dutch?
9th December 2003
DuaLSolo's idea sounds interesting IMHO ... few Piats, few X-packs but mostly timed satchels and couple it with a "push" system and it could be a great fight for the flag ... prossibly anyway :)
Well as you may or may not know: i'm working on a 100% realistic (and on scale) arnhem map. After a msn convo with sjanten we realised that bymyself this map wouldn't be done before the end of 2005. So we just tried to set up a custom object/mapping team with the goal to create custom 100% accurateand on scale maps starting with arnhem. I currently have the help of knoffhoff, sjanten en lighting but i hope that the team will grow as soon as people manage to finish their own maps. Goal would be to realise 100% realistic maps in an acceptable amount of time (1 year for a single map is a bit long :p). The layout will be correct, the starting points depend on the day that the maps play though. On the 17th of september the brits would still have to capture the bridge, on the 18th they already captured the bridge and set up a perimeter (actually they already did this during the evening of sept 17). The map (red is out-of-bounds, green is the perimeter, flags are labeled). on the 17th of sept version he brits would only hold flag 7 in the west (top of the areal) and rush to the bridge with there jeeps and towed 6 pounders. The germans would start with no vehicles near flag 1, 5 and 6. They would get tanks etc. after 5 minutes or so. on the 18th of sept. version the brits would already own flag 2, 3 and 4 and the germans would own flag 1 (light armoured vehicles) and flag 5 and 6 ( spawning panzers III, IV and V and VI after a aproperiate number of minutes).
End of 2005?! Jesus man, we will be playing BF2 by then! But, when this is finished, it will be, without a doubt in my mind, the single greatest urban combat map for BFx. Maybe best period
Problem in this community is clear.
1st side like fragfestmaps (Unreal Tournement style). Make a small map, lots weapons and let everybody kill eachother a much as possible. (Berlin/Zilona Gora)
2 other side likes realism, just use equipment given on the map and fight your way out with skill/patientce and if nessesary kill. (Breaktrough/Prokerovka)
Wow, in a matter of days you managed to think out the entire underlying psychology of why people like what maps!
Its way more complicated than that.