Infantry Balance Thread -1 reply

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judge reinhold

BOY I SURE POST ALOT

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28th April 2003

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#31 15 years ago

you need to ask yourselves, is fh a realism mod? in some respects yes, in many, no. take the panzerfaust, schreck, shermans vs kt...




Aequitas

aka [SHEEP]BrotherMaynard

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8th February 2001

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#32 15 years ago

Well, it sounds like the tank damage and armor values will be ironed out fairly shortly. I can only hope and pray that AT weapons get better..

As for my take on the MP40 vs PPsH, I'd think give the MP40 a touch more damage, other than that, keep it the same. The PPsH, MAYBE take off a little damage, but most certainly ruin it's accuracy while running and jumping. If you jump while firing a PPsH fully-auto you should slip and automatically shoot yourself in the face. Ditto with MG34/42. If you are firing that thing while moving, you should be lucky to place a shot anywhere infront of you. I mean, most of the time, when moving with heavy MG's, they were carried on the shoulder were they not? Not Rambo-style hip-shooting.




raslin

I live on Gaming Forums

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9th February 2003

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#33 15 years ago

The MP-40 does more damage than the PPSh-41. You guys totally exaggerate. I get plenty of kills with it, and often get highest score, as germans or whatnot. If everyone on their team uses PPSh-41's, use Kar98's and outrange them. Jeez.




Aequitas

aka [SHEEP]BrotherMaynard

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#34 15 years ago
raslinThe MP-40 does more damage than the PPSh-41. You guys totally exaggerate. I get plenty of kills with it, and often get highest score, as germans or whatnot. If everyone on their team uses PPSh-41's, use Kar98's and outrange them. Jeez.

Whoa, whoa, I dunno about this one. I'm pretty positive the PPsH does more damage than the MP40. Anybody care to confirm?

Also, please try 'outranging' hordes of charging PPsH users in the tiny, foggy map Pavlov, or in the trenches of Berlin Outskirts.




[CDC]Greywolf1

All my points are in the bank!

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2nd March 2004

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#35 15 years ago

Actually I use the Mosin on Pavlov and I usually get twice as high scores as the PPSh-41 users.




Grahf

Please fix knee mortars

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7th March 2004

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#36 15 years ago

Type 96 bullet dispersion is laughable.

I understand that the devs wanted to counter the scope, but that bullet dispersion is something out of a fantasy!!! The real Type 96 wasn't as inaccurate in real life.




Ohioan

Not Wise Shitashi - Cheston

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6th October 2003

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#37 15 years ago

The MP40 had a stronger, more effective round then the PPsH, and the PPsH seems to do M1 Carbine damage while the MP40 does Nambu. The guns do need balancing.




raslin

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#38 15 years ago

Ok...

7,62x25mm PPSh-41 Round

rem * ************************************************* rem * Infantry target Doubled for balance reasons rem * *************************************************

MaterialManager.attGroup 124 MaterialManager.defGroup 40 MaterialManager.damageMod 4.2 MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate e_blood01

MaterialManager.attGroup 124 MaterialManager.defGroup 41 MaterialManager.damageMod 1.4 MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate e_blood01

MaterialManager.attGroup 124 MaterialManager.defGroup 42 MaterialManager.damageMod 0.7 MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate e_blood01

The first is for head damage, second for body I believe, third for appendages I believe. Now lets look at...

9x19mm MP-40 Round damage.

rem * ************************************************* rem * Infantry target Doubled for balance reasons rem * *************************************************

MaterialManager.attGroup 131 MaterialManager.defGroup 40 MaterialManager.damageMod 3.3 MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate e_blood01

MaterialManager.attGroup 131 MaterialManager.defGroup 41 MaterialManager.damageMod 1.1 MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate e_blood01

MaterialManager.attGroup 131 MaterialManager.defGroup 42 MaterialManager.damageMod 0.6 MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate e_blood01

So, it turns out I was wrong. However, the Devs werent. The 7.62 TT round actually was more powerful. Now lets look at the Thompson, with a .45 cal bullet.

rem * ************************************************* rem * Infantry target Doubled for balance reasons rem * *************************************************

rem added 1.0 for heavier projectil

MaterialManager.attGroup 134 MaterialManager.defGroup 40 MaterialManager.damageMod 3.5 MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate e_blood01

MaterialManager.attGroup 134 MaterialManager.defGroup 41 MaterialManager.damageMod 1.5 MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate e_blood01

MaterialManager.attGroup 134 MaterialManager.defGroup 42 MaterialManager.damageMod 1.0 MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate e_blood01

You can see that the .45 cal does the most damage. However, by logic of progression, it would be plausible that the 9x19mm would be between .45 and PPSh-41 damage, instead of the lowest damage. This is wrong. The 7.62mm TT bullet was actually considered more powerful. I assumed a wider round would be more powerful, but by what I have read, it seems the 9x19mm round was a weaker round. One of its main advantages was low recoil and muzzle climb, and in FH, it has that. I have never had a problem controlling the MP-40, or getting kills with it.

Now lets look at ranges. Compare these with 7.92x57mm, the Kar98 bullet, that has ObjectTemplate.distToMinDamage 500, which the kar98 has a max effective range of about 500m.

7.62x25mm

ObjectTemplate.distToMinDamage 350

9x19mm

ObjectTemplate.distToMinDamage 350

.45 cal

ObjectTemplate.distToMinDamage 300

From these, its obvious that the ranges are also fairly messed up. From my understanding of the damage system, at these ranges, the bullets do that absolute least damage they can. However, it would make more sense to use the max ranges of these guns, and put that as about the halfway point for damage, instead of using made up values for balance. Lets look at the max effective ranges for these guns.

The max effective range for the Thompson is 50 yards,I would say 100 yards would be accurate, for half damage at max range or so. So putting it at ObjectTemplate.distToMinDamage 100...

The max effective range for the PPSh-41 was 150m, So it would become ObjectTemplate.distToMinDamage 300.

The max effective range for the MP-40 was 100m, so it would become ObjectTemplate.distToMinDamage 200.

Now. You all want balance. So my suggestion is this. The MP-40 damage is raised to the same damage as the PPSh-41. At short range, I would suspect this to be true. It would make the MP-40 a stronger weapon, without making the PPSh-41 a better one.

The thing about it is, the MP-40 would lose power faster, and become weaker at range. This is realistic. The PPSh-41 had the most power at range of any of the guns. For trench clearing, this wouldnt present a problem for any of the SMGs.For longer range, well, you should start using rifles. Wasn't that a main complaint in the first place? No incentive to use rifles?