Anlushac11If you had a Churchill or Sherman you would have at best a 75mm gun that can penetrate roughly 78mm of vertical armor versus the Elefants 20mm frontal armor, you still loose. I would like to see a upgraded KV-1 offered with the heavy armor panels and a Soviet Valentine version modified to carry the same 76.2mm gun as used on the T-34's. SU-85 did not show on teh battlefield til September 1943 at the Soviets crossing the Dnepier river.
I don't try to shoot an Elefant to the front with allied tanks (one time I shot one with valentine it was near the soviet base). Churchill and Sherman are at least better than valentine with its weak cannon. With a Churchill I wouldn't fear a Panther. 1 or 2 shots to side he's dead and maybe take 3 shots from him. ;)
Herget If I was a russian general I wouldn't use such a tank in a tank battle. Better use behind frontlines. ;)
If you were a Russian general, you'd use what you were given, or else... :D And by the time you know you're going to have a tank battle, the guns are already firing. Seriously though, you would be insane to send your Valentines behind the lines, better to have 100 T-34's and 100 Valentines, than just 100 T-34's. You would use the best vehicles available in front-line combat. If STAVKA assigned you Valentines, than Valentines are what's available. That or infantry:D
Give the Russians some SU-152's if it's made.
LoboWelcome to the amazing world of a realism mod :rolleyes: Ruskies used widely the valentine
I thought it was a balance between realism and gameplay. Not that I'm a tank expert, but wasn't there never a recorded penetration of the KT's front armor? Anyway, Russians win the map all the time. You just have to be trained in the art of covert operations.:beer:
The only problem with the Valantines is, the wracks vanishes after some time and you can't use them for cover all the time...:)
Dilly_DawgI thought it was a balance between realism and gameplay. Not that I'm a tank expert, but wasn't there never a recorded penetration of the KT's front armor? Anyway, Russians win the map all the time. You just have to be trained in the art of covert operations.:beer:
According to the Soviets they have. The 100mm firing HVAP or Sabot, and 122mm firing HVAP could both penetrate the turret front.
The big argument centers on whether the front hull plate was ever penetrated. The Soviets say yes, everyone else says no.
The turret front was documented to be penetrated by US and Brit tanks using 90mm and 17lbr HVAP rounds only.
Since the Germans are assaulting (The Russians are between the city and the Germans) and it is not winter then this has to be the March 1943 offensive that captured Kharkov.
The Su-152 would be incorrect as the first 12 produced premiered at Kursk.
The Elefant and Panther are also incorrect for this map as the Elefant debuted at Kursk too. First combat usage of the Panther was at Kursk as well.
The Germans tanks used were PzIII, PzIV, and Tigers. Only tank destroyers were StugIII's and Marders.