My Ideal FH2 Revised! -1 reply

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Johannes

France's Bitch

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13th December 2004

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#1 11 years ago

Yes, it’s time for me to bring up the new thoughts and ideas that have entered my head and changed my views since the last time I posted what I dreamed the ideal FH2 would be by the time all is said and done. I’m going to keep the map limit to 60 maps again, but this time I’m going to be a little more specific. Again, 60 maps is the number of maps in FH1 0.7, so I thought it a decent number to stick with for reality purposes (can’t get too idealistic here). To address some complaints: one of the things I wish FH2 will do is put a little more attention on the “other” armies of WW2. After all, why create an entire army and full arsenal of equipment if they’re only going to appear in one, rarely-played map? And one of the opinions I know I’ll hear right away is “why aren’t the Soviets in more maps?” Well, I figured if FH2 is going to represent the entire war, it shouldn’t be Red Orchestra: The Clone. Furthermore, if the Americans or British are in too many maps by comparison, well, keep in mind they fought in various campaigns that have to be represented. The Russians by comparison fought primarily in just the Eastern Front, one campaign. Yes, the scope of the campaign was gargantuan. But again, the ideal FH2 for me would represent World War 2, not the Great Patriotic War. Anyway, to begin, I’m going to divide up the campaigns, maps, gameplay and armies into appropriate sections. Like the last time, I have decided to not add any armies that weren’t already in FH 0.7 other than China (since after all, it’s an entire, large campaign on its own historically). THE BLITZ / EARLY WAR – 6 MAPS ALLIES UK – 4 maps Poland – 1 map France – 1 map AXIS Germany – 6 maps Maps: Invasion of Poland Invasion of France (introduce all those French weapons) Battle of Britain Norway (one of the British maps; perhaps even a British/French cooperation map) Crete (again!) Some Atlantic Naval Battle (between the British and the Germans) NORTH AFRICA CAMPAIGN – 10 MAPS ALLIES UK – 7 maps Australia – 1 map France – 1 map USA – 1 map AXIS Germany – 6 maps Italy – 4 maps Maps: The numbers I listed are those in which the primary army involved is counted. Some maps can have some good old fashion cooperation maps, like British troops with Australian/New Zealand troops, or, of course, the Germans with the Italians. For the French map, I decided that rather than having Bir Hakeim (as I previously longed for), it would probably be best to have a map with the former Vichy French North African Army, then designated the French Corps, in Tunisia against the Germans. This way more of the pure French equipment will be used, including French Somua tanks and French MAS-36 rifles (as well as colonial troops using Lebel rifles, which can probably be acquired from a trade with BF1918 mod). WESTERN EUROPE CAMPAIGN – 10 MAPS ALLIES USA – 6 maps UK – 2 maps Canada – 1 map France – 1 map AXIS Germany – 10 maps Maps: I cut back on the number of Western Europe (post D-Day) maps, especially compared to the amount in FH1 (there were about 20 or so in there), because the new Italian campaign maps should compensate (and hey, spread the wealth to other campaigns). The single Canadian map is a little hard to pinpoint. I can’t decide whether I’d like a standard style map like a remake of Liberation of Caen or if I’d like a Dieppe Raid or Juno Beach map. Dieppe would be interesting, though I expect there to already be a lot of beach landing maps in the game. The French map would be a southern France map, probably Toulon (or Marseille), where there was plenty of action and plenty of French equipment used (by the Germans as well). Enfield M1917s, while not a French weapon, were not used in abundance by any army other than the French in World War 2, and so would be a neat weapon for their primary rifle (alongside the Springfield M1903, not A3 model, and other French rifles for colonial troops). ITALIAN CAMPAIGN – 7 MAPS ALLIES USA – 3 maps UK – 1 map France – 1 map Poland – 1 map Canada – 1 map AXIS Germany – 5 maps Italy – 2 maps Maps: For the Canadians I was thinking there should be an Ortona map. Plenty of brutal urban combat. I hope there would be two Sicily levels, one for the Americans and one for the British, so that the Italians could receive two maps here (the Sicily ones). Italy surrendered soon after the invasion of mainland Italy in 1943, and other than in a small way on either side (officially on Allied, but also Axis northern Italy troops), were primarily out of the war from then on. If New Zealanders or Indians could be made to have a map in the Cassino town, then that would be best in my opinion. But because I didn’t want to add the extra army, I just gave an extra map to the US who first tried to take the town if I remember correctly. The French Expeditionary Corps gets to crack the Gustav Line. Like at Toulon later, they were already mostly American-supplied (like the Enfield M1917), but some French weapons remained. The Polish of course have the honor of fighting around the Monte Cassino monastery. The actual monastery itself was taken without a fight following an artillery barrage and the retreat of the Germans, but the Polish had massive engagements with the Germans on the hills there before that. I’m not sure if it would be better to have the monastery in the background or as an actual place the Germans would defend on the map. EASTERN EUROPE CAMPAIGN – 14 MAPS ALLIES USSR – 13 maps Poland – 1 map AXIS Germany – 12 maps Finland – 2 maps Maps: I thought it would be great to have a Polish map on the Eastern Front, from the Polish forces under the Soviets. Or some might prefer a Warsaw map (I personally am not too supportive of resistance maps, and this is my ideal FH2 dream anyway :P). PACIFIC / ASIAN CAMPAIGN – 13 MAPS ALLIES USA – 6 maps China – 4 maps UK – 2 maps Australia – 1 map AXIS Japan – 13 maps Maps: I think this would be the most extensively the Far East Chinese theater would ever be realistically explored in a WW2 game. Being the longest ongoing part of WW2, I figured it would be nice to have a map set in four different time periods, with perhaps one before the official beginning of World War 2 (when it was just the Second Sino-Japanese War). A Singapore map would be great for the British, and I remember seeing Lobo state that he would personally see to it that a Hong Kong map be made. At the same time, he noted (if my memory is accurate) that since the Canadians were not the only unit, they may not be the ones on the map. So I put it under the UK. ARMY MAP COUNT TOTALS ALLIES USA – 16 UK – 16 USSR – 13 CHINA – 4 FRANCE – 4 POLAND – 3 CANADA – 2 AUSTRALIA – 2 AXIS GERMANY – 39 JAPAN – 13 ITALY – 6 FINLAND – 2 GAMEPLAY: Improved submachine guns I think would be a must. Even when still and crouching, the spread is just too much to make most of them of any use in FH1. Part of the problem I think is simply the cone of fire. Irony of it is that I’m almost always a rifleman. But for a change, it would be nice to know I could count on an SMG for a close-quartered map. Sway for every gun to replicate actually holding the weapon. Sway would be affected by the gun size and weight. I know this is already mentioned in the stickies, but I thought I’d bring it up anyway. With the Wii version of Call of Duty 3, it felt really nice to have the gun shake as my hand did. Brought some level of immersion into factor, and it prevented the rifles from being laser guns with pin point accuracy like they currently are in FH1 (and other CoD games). Many more word instant message commands. BF2 is far, far too limited in what you can say with the communication rose. But I’m not so sure about the global communication. I think what would be a bit more realistic is to have only squad leaders or people with a radio kit communicate globally with the commander or other squad leaders or people with a radio kit. When a normal soldier uses the com rose, it would be spoken/yelled out loud so that only those around him in his vicinity could hear him. Well there you have it, that’s my ideal FH2. Yes, I was quite bored at the moment, and I just thought it would be an interesting discussion to bring this concept up again, only revised and more detailed. So what’s yours, and what problems do you see with mine? Multiple choice poll, by the way.




Pietje

People say I post too much

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14th December 2005

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#2 11 years ago
Johannès;3461925Again, 60 maps is the number of maps in FH1 0.7, so I thought it a decent number to stick with for reality purposes (can’t get too idealistic here). To address some complaints: one of the things I wish FH2 will do is put a little more attention on the “other” armies of WW2. After all, why create an entire army and full arsenal of equipment if they’re only going to appear in one, rarely-played map? And one of the opinions I know I’ll hear right away is “why aren’t the Soviets in more maps?” Well, I figured if FH2 is going to represent the entire war, it shouldn’t be Red Orchestra: The Clone. Furthermore, if the Americans or British are in too many maps by comparison, well, keep in mind they fought in various campaigns that have to be represented. The Russians by comparison fought primarily in just the Eastern Front, one campaign. Yes, the scope of the campaign was gargantuan. But again, the ideal FH2 for me would represent World War 2, not the Great Patriotic War.

I think that the overall focus of maps should be more on the Eastern Front simply due to the fact that the big and important battles where fought there. Not to mention im fairly of 1944 Normandy maps and of West front maps in general, overhyped and overplayed if you ask me. As if the Western Front was the only place that mattered. So instead of 13 maps, atleast 16, preferably 17 maps for the Eastern Front. The Eastern Front was important and thats how it should be in FH2. Not a sideshow or anything like that. Otherwise we might rename FH2 to COD/MOH/whatever clone.

GAMEPLAY: Improved submachine guns I think would be a must. Even when still and crouching, the spread is just too much to make most of them of any use in FH1. Part of the problem I think is simply the cone of fire. Irony of it is that I’m almost always a rifleman. But for a change, it would be nice to know I could count on an SMG for a close-quartered map.

I dont think there are any problems with smgs. Except for the fact that i consider to be way too common ingame. Seeing as the majority of soldiers where armed with rifles. Regardless, i do hope i wont see any bunnyhopping or dolphin diving in FH2. Is really neccassery to use such BIG letters? I can read your post perfectly without use of BIG letters. :)




Johannes

France's Bitch

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13th December 2004

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#3 11 years ago

Sorry, I typed it out in Microsoft Word at Times New Roman 12 font I think. Not sure. Yeah, Eastern Front was really big and important, but by making so many maps of it, I figured the rest of the campaigns, including those that are rarely portrayed (like the Blitz, Italian Campaign, or Pacific campaign) would be left out. About the SMGs... really? I know of course that rifles were the primary weapons, but in FH it seems like they're useless even if crouching and not moving. It seems like the ratio of riflemen to SMG users, even in highly urban maps where SMGs should be the weapon of choice, is always way skewed in the rifles' favor. It doesn't quite help that aiming with rifles in FH1 is so easy (they're like laser pointers).




Pietje

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#4 11 years ago
Johannès;3462000Sorry, I typed it out in Microsoft Word at Times New Roman 12 font I think. Not sure.

No problem. :)

Yeah, Eastern Front was really big and important, but by making so many maps of it, I figured the rest of the campaigns, including those that are rarely portrayed (like the Blitz, Italian Campaign, or Pacific campaign) would be left out

That is something you dont need to worry about. Its just that i am concerned that the Eastern Front will be ignored in order to please people whom prefer the Western front.

About the SMGs... really? I know of course that rifles were the primary weapons, but in FH it seems like they're useless even if crouching and not moving. It seems like the ratio of riflemen to SMG users, even in highly urban maps where SMGs should be the weapon of choice, is always way skewed in the rifles' favor. It doesn't quite help that aiming with rifles in FH1 is so easy (they're like laser pointers).

Fascinating, if anything i generally get killed by SMG's, especially on maps like Berlin, where the majority of people seem to use SMG's. Especially if they jump arond and pray and spray. But useless? Hell no. If anything their accuracy needs to be drasticly reduced when jumping and running around.

Its even worse when you use a flamethrower then you become a LIVING MAGNET for SMG users. The fact that the flames dont do anything unless you directly hit the person doesnt help much either.

Thats why im glad there will be limits on kits in FH2. No more " Picking the right weapon for the right situation".




Jetro

There's a satchel on your tank

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6th December 2004

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#5 11 years ago

I've never found smg's that accurate, catch somebody close range in a building while crouching, then sure you'll get em, on the other hand catch them standing across the street, and all bets are off, even though the shot by all means should be easy. The arbitary spread on smgs is pretty big, big enough that someone bunnyhopping while spray and praying is probably going to go through a whole mag to just kill one person, and weak enough that often times it's a better choice to use a knife than an SMG in close quarters.(Pavlov's House or any building really)




Pietje

People say I post too much

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14th December 2005

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#6 11 years ago
Jetro;3462073I've never found smg's that accurate, catch somebody close range in a building while crouching, then sure you'll get em, on the other hand catch them standing across the street, and all bets are off, even though the shot by all means should be easy. The arbitary spread on smgs is pretty big, big enough that someone bunnyhopping while spray and praying is probably going to go through a whole mag to just kill one person, and weak enough that often times it's a better choice to use a knife than an SMG in close quarters.(Pavlov's House or any building really)

Do you think its acceptable then that people bunnyhop? Accuracy SHOULD be bad while you are bunnyhopping around. It isnt realistic whatsoever.

The knife arguement is simply nonsenses. SMG's arent that bad. Knifes for that matter should be replaced with bayonets. Try crouching and firing an smg in short bursts, if you do that then you shouldnt have any problems hitting things. On the other if you bunnyhop or run around and dont fire in bursts then you shouldnt expect to hit anything, except dust. Just like in real life. :)




Meadow

You might very well think that

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21st February 2004

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#7 11 years ago
Pietje;3461959I think that the overall focus of maps should be more on the Eastern Front simply due to the fact that the big and important battles where fought there. Not to mention im fairly of 1944 Normandy maps and of West front maps in general, overhyped and overplayed if you ask me. As if the Western Front was the only place that mattered. So instead of 13 maps, atleast 16, preferably 17 maps for the Eastern Front. The Eastern Front was important and thats how it should be in FH2. Not a sideshow or anything like that. Otherwise we might rename FH2 to COD/MOH/whatever clone.

Er... there are more Eastern Front maps on this plan than any other theatre, including Finland and Poland. Let us not forget the equally important Pacific theatre which also has a lot of maps. The war in Europe may have been won and lost in the East, but the war in the Pacific was won and lost in the Pacific. D'uh.

Anyway, my point is that 14 maps is ample for the Eastern Front. 17 would, I think, start to become arbitrary. I note you do not name your 17 maps for the Eastern Front - if you can name them and describe in some detail why they would each be valuable additions to FH2 then I might change my mind on this.

Remember, even if the Eastern Front was the most important (which it was) that's not grounds for putting loads of maps in - variety and playability is. The same can of course be said for the Western Front, which I too believe to be overplayed - one tires of endless 'lol summer 1944 shermans vs panthers' maps.




Pietje

People say I post too much

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#8 11 years ago
Meadow;3462250Er... there are more Eastern Front maps on this plan than any other theatre, including Finland and Poland. Let us not forget the equally important Pacific theatre which also has a lot of maps. The war in Europe may have been won and lost in the East, but the war in the Pacific was won and lost in the Pacific. D'uh.

I wish the devs would spend more time on modeling stuff for the Japanese, if you ask me. Thats my biggest issue with pacific maps. And more time on the terrain of Pacific maps.

Anyway, my point is that 14 maps is ample for the Eastern Front. 17 would, I think, start to become arbitrary. I note you do not name your 17 maps for the Eastern Front - if you can name them and describe in some detail why they would each be valuable additions to FH2 then I might change my mind on this.

You are right i didnt say what kind of maps, what i want is more early Eastern front war maps in general, not specific maps of any kind. Maybe 17 maps is a bit too much, ill settle for 14 maps then. Once Fh2 is released more Eastern maps could be added, as long as it doesnt become overplayed, ofcourse.

Remember, even if the Eastern Front was the most important (which it was) that's not grounds for putting loads of maps in - variety and playability is. The same can of course be said for the Western Front, which I too believe to be overplayed - one tires of endless 'lol summer 1944 shermans vs panthers' maps.

I would like to see more early war Western maps, centered around the Battle of France, more maps regarding Creté, for example (im fairly interested the early part of WW2.). And less - like you said - 1944 maps.




Gen'l Knight

Can't ... give peace a chance?

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10th April 2004

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#9 11 years ago
Johannès;3462000 About the SMGs... really? I know of course that rifles were the primary weapons, but in FH it seems like they're useless even if crouching and not moving. It seems like the ratio of riflemen to SMG users, even in highly urban maps where SMGs should be the weapon of choice, is always way skewed in the rifles' favor. It doesn't quite help that aiming with rifles in FH1 is so easy (they're like laser pointers).

First of all, you've done an admirable job using your discretionary time... :) As far as SMGs (and I really hate to say this because of prior stands) to me the Pssh is not right in the sense that it is nerfed perhaps too much. The other SMGs (MP40, MP-18, the Italian one,etc) seem to be ok. Thje Thompson is very close but could have the crosshairs close a might quicker. But back to the Pssh, to me I'd rather use the MP-40 even for CQB and that is probably not right. But before the Devas say "You guys bitch and we fix it and now look at you" I think the problem is the bun-hop and fire as well as running and shooting. Coupled with accurate SMGs, you get issues because that behavior never happened IRL. I'm confident those issues will evaporate in your, mine and ours FH2 as stated by the Devas in previous posts. I contend that your should be able to walk and not run to your nearest enemy bunker with a minimal negative affect on your marksmanship. Fast walking and sprinting are verboten to the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval to death dealing fire, supression or otherwise. :naughty:




Unkn0wn

Rommel's sidekick.

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18th August 2006

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#10 11 years ago

Way too much italy maps :P.

Italy should get a map or 2 in Afrika and maybey 5 italy campaign maps at best.

And yea, largest numbers for late war Western front (at least 10 - 15). And for the Eastern front (at least 12 - 16) With the Pacific to get at least 10 aswell.

Western front is indeed overplayed but face it, they're the most popular :).