Panzer III -1 reply

Please wait...

ww2freak

Ingame name: Major.

50 XP

27th April 2003

0 Uploads

648 Posts

0 Threads

#1 15 years ago

Germans desperatly need it for the desert maps and for Poland maps. Poland maps should also have more tanks, like panzer III (earlier), panzer I and panzerjager. The Fall Weiss could use some more tanks, it would make it more fun; remember that the germans advanced in large tank groups - an innovative tactic by then.

But the really important thing is to give some tank on desert maps that really can make the germans defend themselves and attack properly. Some panzer IV and III would really be welcome. I dont understand why should the germans have Stug IIIb? By the way, the Stug IIIb tracks are wrong, those are panzer IV tracks.




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

50 XP

17th July 2003

0 Uploads

15,096 Posts

0 Threads

#2 15 years ago

PzIII is on the way, if you do a search you will see a number of threads on the subject




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

50 XP

2nd May 2003

0 Uploads

4,837 Posts

0 Threads

#3 15 years ago

Poland maps could use Panzer III, they weren't that many then but all versions together they were more than all the 7TP's. Unforunatly the Panzer III that's coming is 50mm and those versions were after the Polish campaign..




Ohioan

Not Wise Shitashi - Cheston

50 XP

6th October 2003

0 Uploads

3,604 Posts

0 Threads

#4 15 years ago

The 37mm was in poland. I've also heard talk of the Panzer38t (captured Chezch tanks) being added to that campaign. I have no clue how accurate it is.




Beast of War

Born to kill

50 XP

28th May 2003

0 Uploads

2,698 Posts

0 Threads

#5 15 years ago

Panzer III in Poland.....yes, there were a few early A,B,C and D versions but that versions were never mass produced. These early models that survived Poland and Norway were handed over for training purposes. It came with a 250 BHP engine and only 5-15 mm of armour, that stopped only most infantry weapons.

Only from version E Panzer III ( that was nevertheless produced in already 1938 ) larger numbers were produced, wich were used in France with the 37 mm KwK 35/36 L46.5 and 3 x 7.92 mm mg 34. ( somehow i fear we have to do with 2 mg or even 1 mg in FH )

After the France campaign the version E was upgraded to 50 mm KwK 38 L/42. The F versions initially came with the 37 mm gun to, but were also refitted with 50 mm. Version F was in use as late as 1944 in Normandy. These versions had a 300 BHP engine and armour values from 21 - 30 mm, still not much. The best armoured version ( L and M ) had a front armour of 57 mm, but weak armoured 30 mm sides. The shurzen later applied was a stopgap measure, the Panzer III was too light to add much more armour and a heaver gun. The larger PanzerIV was more suitable for that, so it soon replaced the PanzerIII as a tank fighting vehicle, and became one of the first tanks that could fight both infantry and tanks with the same gun.

I think about everyone has too high expectations of the Panzer III. Light armour made it vulnerable to all enemy tanks it ever went up against, it's whole career. The guns it carried were never really good enough for the job, even the later 50 mm KwK guns ( KwK 38 L/42 and KwK 39 L/60 ) had penetration values that fell quickly beyond 500 m. And by that time enemy tanks had sloped angle and thicker armour.

Instead of worrying over a Panzer III, you should ask yourself where the Panzer 35t and 38t were that really were used along Panzer I and II in Poland, Norway and France. These important originally chech tanks are missing from FH, while they were the main stay of the german army when they went to war. Also in France, german artillery based on the Panzer I, 15cm sIG33 and panzerJager I tankdestroyers should be there. Germans are a bit "naked" without mobile artillery and tank destroyers.

Most german mobile artillery and tank destroyers are still missing in FH, including the really powerfull late war ones anyway. Goes for Russian tank destroyers/mobile artillery too.




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

50 XP

17th July 2003

0 Uploads

15,096 Posts

0 Threads

#6 15 years ago

Its not so much that we are pinning all are hopes on the PzIII, its that the Germans have no mobile high velocity A/T gun akin to the Matilda II's or Crusaders A/T guns.

No Marder I, II, or III's, no PzIII's, or PzIV-F2's. No towed PAK38's,PAK40's, FLAK18's, etc88's, etc.All of these have a high velocity A/T gun but the Germans dont get any.

PzIV-F2 should not be on any North Africa maps dated before June of 1942 and should be at El Alamein.




-=*AngelCorpse*=-

Slightly cooler than a n00b

50 XP

29th March 2004

0 Uploads

37 Posts

0 Threads

#7 15 years ago
Its not so much that we are pinning all are hopes on the PzIII, its that the Germans have no mobile high velocity A/T gun akin to the Matilda II's or Crusaders A/T guns.
No Marder I, II, or III's, no PzIII's, or PzIV-F2's. No towed PAK38's,PAK40's, FLAK18's, etc88's, etc.All of these have a high velocity A/T gun but the Germans dont get any.
PzIV-F2 should not be on any North Africa maps dated before June of 1942 and should be at El Alamein.

Anshulac is completely right, as almost always... ;) And against british vehicles armed with 2pdr guns the 1941 PzIIIg/h/j should be clearly superior, especially if armored with 30+30 face hardened plates (model h) and brinell grades up to 450 on the turret front. So we need british Cruiser/Crusaders with an 2pdr, you cant throw the late 1942 Crusader III with 6pdr against an PzIII with 50mm/L42 gun. From may 1942 on the first PzIIIj/8 with the 50mm/L60 gun appear, armored 50mm on front and turret, later armored up to 50+20mm (later js, ls, ms). This should be the German tank of 1942.

Panzer III in Poland.....yes, there were a few early A,B,C and D versions but that versions were never mass produced. These early models that survived Poland and Norway were handed over for training purposes. It came with a 250 BHP engine and only 5-15 mm of armour, that stopped only most infantry weapons.
Only from version E Panzer III ( that was nevertheless produced in already 1938 ) larger numbers were produced, wich were used in France with the 37 mm KwK 35/36 L46.5 and 3 x 7.92 mm mg 34. ( somehow i fear we have to do with 2 mg or even 1 mg in FH )
Instead of worrying over a Panzer III, you should ask yourself where the Panzer 35t and 38t were that really were used along Panzer I and II in Poland, Norway and France. These important originally chech tanks are missing from FH, while they were the main stay of the german army when they went to war. Also in France, german artillery based on the Panzer I, 15cm sIG33 and panzerJager I tankdestroyers should be there. Germans are a bit "naked" without mobile artillery and tank destroyers

I posted similar statements early ago. There were no more than between 40 and 50 PzIII involved in the Poland campaign. Pz35(t) and 38(t) were common, some PzRegiments being totally equipped with PzII and the Czech tanks. And in France they still outnumbered the PzIII by far. Even Barbarossa saw the use of still nearly 1000 Czech tanks, even the 35(t).




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

50 XP

2nd May 2003

0 Uploads

4,837 Posts

0 Threads

#8 15 years ago

I think I read on Achtung Panzer that there were something like 150 Panzer III's in Poland but I could be wrong. A thing that would bring a tear to my eye would be a map with Slovak T-35/38's and Avia B.534 fighters vs Poles\Russians:)




Solo4114

Scoundrel Extraordinaire

50 XP

16th September 2002

0 Uploads

1,460 Posts

0 Threads

#9 15 years ago

I just want something that can actually HURT British tanks on most of the N. African maps. The PzII can do it, but it has to sit there for a good 30 seconds firing at point blank range into the side of a Stuart to do damage. The Stug is worthless, especially since they're StugIIIbs (short-barreled ones). The PzIV that we have on those maps is the infantry-fighting version which is just not gonna cut it without it's PzIII cousin. I'd be all for having PzIVs and PzIIIs on those maps, doing their respective jobs. That's all I really want. I don't need a Tiger. Just something that can MOSTLY do the job, since there really isn't anything currently.




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

50 XP

2nd May 2003

0 Uploads

4,837 Posts

0 Threads

#10 15 years ago

Isn't it strange that a Panzer II can take out a Crusader pretty easy but can't kill the light Stuart?