Ships & effects -1 reply

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Flying Carpet Of Death

Because lemons are yellow.

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12th May 2007

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#51 10 years ago
'[CHNHarrier;4535151']My suggestion is : since the BF2 engine could not handle the naval combat very well, give it up and focus on the land & sky. It's not worthy to build a "complete" battlefield but flawy.

No no no no no no.

You cannot have WWII in the Pacific without naval combat. It's like making a hamburger with only buns, you're getting less than half the action.

And if there's any universal message thats been repeated several times throughout history it's to "never give up". Maybe the BF2 engine will be impossible to fix entirely, but there's no saying how many compromises or "unusual" solutions there are to these problems. Thinking outside the box is how breakthroughs are made.




Kev4000

GF is my bext friend *hugs GF*

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5th October 2007

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#52 10 years ago

Ronin Pedroshin;4536919The very ones we're talking about in the thread, being able to use ladders in ships, have aircraft carriers and naval warfare, enter specific positions in a vehicle depending on where you are when you press the enter button, all like in BF42.

To me they were very important aspects of what made Battlefield so special, much more than graphics or shaders, so I hate the fact Dice, for whatever crazy reason, made it impossible with BF2.

Ships are being proven possible in BF2, however not to the same extent as BF1942 of course. But its understandable, as in modern times, which the BF2 engine is designed for, there is no opposing navy to the US navy. So its not really a crazy reason they decided to have their aircraft carrier static, its for performance issues and so noobs don't drive it off map. Naturally some things will be harder to code on the BF2 engine as it isn't made for WW2 combat. The additions in the BF2 engine far outweigh the features that were in BF1942 that you mentioned.




Ronin Pedroshin

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13th June 2004

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#53 10 years ago
Kev4000;4537747But its understandable, as in modern times, which the BF2 engine is designed for, there is no opposing navy to the US navy.

I think otherwise, it's not like China doesn't have any navy and MEC is fictitious, it could pretty much have a navy as well. The whole BF2 is based on what-if scenarios, so we could pretty much have anything.

Also Dice was planning to have one of those Landing Craft Air Cushion (LCAC-4), to deploy vehicles from the sea. The reason they stopped was because they were too lazy to code it, or probably EA just wanted them to release BF2 as soon as possible so they didn't have time to get it fully in the game.

And the BF2 new features (excluding visual ones like shaders or graphics of course)... Commander, squads, grappling hooks doesn't make up for me in terms of what's been lost from BF42. Not to mention sometimes BF2's netcode leaves too much to be desired when compared with its precessor (sounds getting cut-off are an example).

One of the few things that I like that BF2 made possible was perhaps the realistic vehicle dimensions & damage and the possibility to change ammo type.

But one of the reasons I'll still play FH1 as long as there are some people in at least a server is the netcode and the memorable naval battles that still make it so much fun.




Kev4000

GF is my bext friend *hugs GF*

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#54 10 years ago

Ronin Pedroshin;4538180I think otherwise, it's not like China doesn't have any navy and MEC is fictitious, it could pretty much have a navy as well. The whole BF2 is based on what-if scenarios, so we could pretty much have anything.

Also Dice was planning to have one of those Landing Craft Air Cushion (LCAC-4), to deploy vehicles from the sea. The reason they stopped was because they were too lazy to code it, or probably EA just wanted them to release BF2 as soon as possible so they didn't have time to get it fully in the game.

And the BF2 new features (excluding visual ones like shaders or graphics of course)... Commander, squads, grappling hooks doesn't make up for me in terms of what's been lost from BF42. Not to mention sometimes BF2's netcode leaves too much to be desired when compared with its precessor (sounds getting cut-off are an example).

One of the few things that I like that BF2 made possible was perhaps the realistic vehicle dimensions & damage and the possibility to change ammo type.

But one of the reasons I'll still play FH1 as long as there are some people in at least a server is the netcode and the memorable naval battles that still make it so much fun.

Even though I do agree that many smaller features weren't included in the BF2 engine, some that FH1 used to a great extent, I do not agree that these outweigh the stuff that was included in the BF2 engine. The squad system for one, suppresion, banage/bleeding, ironsights, easier animation implementation, 1:1 scale vehicles, different amunitions, I could go on for ages. Now its a matter of opinion I guess, but I'd rather have all these features then naval combat. And naval combat is possible on the BF2 engine, its already in FH2, just that the destroyer, aircraft carrier and submarine aren't placed on any official map. But I've tried them personally, although a long time ago, and they seem to work pretty well. You can still sink an aircraft carrier with a destroyer, shell a beach, or take off in a sword fish. Sure entering the ships might not work as well, or perhaps walking on the ships, but it works. People seem to try to find alternate reasons to like FH1 better then FH2, as can be seen because FH1 is more popular, but in reality it can't stem from anything else then the more varied content FH1 offers, which is a big plus I do agree. Even I occasionally go back to playing FH1.

EDIT: We can't be sure why they decided to leave out the landing craft, however them being lazy or EA wanting them to rush it is oversimplifying. Often the companies release renders among other things early, without taking into account what the engine can handle. Dice has a set of minimum requirements for BF2 to work for, so that BF2 can run on most computers smoothly. FH2 doesn't have to do so, which does give them a lot more freedom. The amount of engine optimization or tweaking required to allow in such a vessel would perhaps not make sense in an economical perspective. Thats why we love mods, right? Its the gaming business without economics involved being able to develop for niche communities.




Ronin Pedroshin

GF is my bext friend *hugs GF*

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#55 10 years ago

Yes I think it's a matter of opinion, but I didn't mean to say that FH1 outweighs FH2.

To me, without thinking of the graphical improvements, they each have their own unique features. FH1 is an alternative when I want to have more functional naval battles and experience things that were lost in the transition just because Dice, instead of just improving upon the first game, placed new things while removing others, and I mainly speak of the better coding of vehicle and player collisions with other vehicles and possibility of having ladders on moving ships.

Kev4000;4538308Dice has a set of minimum requirements for BF2 to work for, so that BF2 can run on most computers smoothly. FH2 doesn't have to do so, which does give them a lot more freedom. The amount of engine optimization or tweaking required to allow in such a vessel would perhaps not make sense in an economical perspective. Thats why we love mods, right? Its the gaming business without economics involved being able to develop for niche communities.

In my view I bet they didn't decide to include the landing craft because they didn't bother to correct the engine's problems with vehicle collisions.

When they tested it they probably noticed the Humvees on top of the LCAC-4 would just move around by themselves and get damaged, so the simple way was just to scratch it off instead of trying to figure a way to fix it.

And these things Dice didn't include are unfortunately many of the things that are hardcoded, and even our beloved mods can't go around thanks to the "amazing" Mod support Dice offers... :(




Kev4000

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#56 10 years ago

Ronin Pedroshin;4540935When they tested it they probably noticed the Humvees on top of the LCAC-4 would just move around by themselves and get damaged, so the simple way was just to scratch it off instead of trying to figure a way to fix it.

And these things Dice didn't include are unfortunately many of the things that are hardcoded, and even our beloved mods can't go around thanks to the "amazing" Mod support Dice offers... :(

Having stuff ontop of the landing craft would probably require a huge change to the core elements of the engine, requiring a LOT of time redoing stuff, which wouldn't make sense from an economical view, which I can understand. And don't bash the Dice mod support, BF1942, BFV and BF2 have arguably had the best mod support that any FPS game has ever had, proof of this is the diversity of mods the games have. There has been more content developed for the BF franchise then any other mod franchise, I'd dare to say even more content then the HL series.




Ronin Pedroshin

GF is my bext friend *hugs GF*

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#57 10 years ago
Kev4000;4542696Having stuff ontop of the landing craft would probably require a huge change to the core elements of the engine, requiring a LOT of time redoing stuff, which wouldn't make sense from an economical view, which I can understand. And don't bash the Dice mod support, BF1942, BFV and BF2 have arguably had the best mod support that any FPS game has ever had, proof of this is the diversity of mods the games have. There has been more content developed for the BF franchise then any other mod franchise, I'd dare to say even more content then the HL series.

Quantity does not necessarily reflect quality. There's a good reason to bash the Dice mod support, they failed at some aspects. FH devs themselves acknowledged they left much to be desired. Never saw them helping a mod team going around any of the hardcoded problems in either BF42 or BF2.

EDIT: Here's what I'm referring to: #1, #2.




Kev4000

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#58 10 years ago

Ronin Pedroshin;4543089Quantity does not necessarily reflect quality. There's a good reason to bash the Dice mod support, they failed at some aspects. FH devs themselves acknowledged they left much to be desired. Never saw them helping a mod team going around any of the hardcoded problems in either BF42 or BF2.

EDIT: Here's what I'm referring to: #1, #2.

Depends on how you define mod support. You're talking about EA/Dice directly giving mods what they request. On the other hand, the ease of implementation of content into the BF2 engine can also be considered mod support. If FH2, with gigantic battles, 30 vehicles and 20 different weapons and its combat system was to be put on the source or unreal engine, it would require a full time dev team, and a budget because the devs would need to drop their jobs for it. Sure Valve might give more consideration to mods, however for what FH2 is attempting to do, there is no alternative to the BF2 engine, regardless of how much other companies value the hard working mod teams.




Ronin Pedroshin

GF is my bext friend *hugs GF*

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#59 10 years ago
Kev4000;4543320Depends on how you define mod support. You're talking about EA/Dice directly giving mods what they request. On the other hand, the ease of implementation of content into the BF2 engine can also be considered mod support. If FH2, with gigantic battles, 30 vehicles and 20 different weapons and its combat system was to be put on the source or unreal engine, it would require a full time dev team, and a budget because the devs would need to drop their jobs for it. Sure Valve might give more consideration to mods, however for what FH2 is attempting to do, there is no alternative to the BF2 engine, regardless of how much other companies value the hard working mod teams.

I define mod support in it's overall, both ease of implementation of content and communication with mod teams. And it's this communications part that Dice lacks. Yes there are no good quality alternatives for large-scale battles unfortunately, BF is the best there is at the moment. Too bad Dice isn't more like Valve... perhaps they need some more experience with mods and hopefully improve in the future. But that's just me with my wishful thinking.




Lobo

All your base are belong to FH

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27th April 2003

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#60 10 years ago

DICE has killed the golden age of mods in the battlefield franchise with BF2, they know it, we know it, they don't care, we are free.

You know I never have been the polithical correct kind of guy, that's it, I have said it.