M10 vs Panther specifically. I was playing alpenfestung last night driving M10 and had these scenarios happen. In each one, I had 100% health. From long distance : Hit panther in the front once, then he hit me once in my front killing me. Panther survives. From short distance : Hit panther in the right side about halfway up (was surprised that didn't kill him). Panther hit me in the front. I hit panther in the front right. Panther hits me in front, i die. Panther survives. I thought m10 should be able to handle a panther better than that, where am I going wrong? :confused:
well, first for the m10: it neither had a very powerfull gun, nor had it any reasonable armor to protect it on any side form the dangers of the later war stages. about the panther, it still has that messed up front armor it got in the last updates, which makes it quite easy to kill from the front, which is quite unrealistic seeing the armorstrengh and the angle it was shaped.
The M10 is a tank destroyer and as such only has about 38mm front upper hull armor sloped at 45deg, the side hull is 19mm and the side turret armor is 25mm which the Panther can penetrate at any range it can hit from. The US concept was a vehicle with a open top for better crew situational awareness and light armor to carry a bigger gun. The vehicle was supposed to be very fast and mobile. The M10 was about the same speed as a Sherman. When Shermans started coming with 76mm guns M10's were withdrawn from service as they were redundant. Most M10 hulls withdrawn were refitted with M36 turrets and brought back as M36's.
The problem with the M10 is that FH needs to model a early version and a late version to represent the different ammo types. M10's til late 1944 used a APC ammo which had problems penetrating and often shattered on German armor. Late in 1944 a APCBC and a APDS round were produced both of which had drastically better penetration.
According to Belton Coopers book "Deathtraps" two M10's in Normandie fired multiple rounds but could not penetrate a Panthers frontal armor at 300m and the Panther knocked out both M10's. The Panther was shortly after knocked out by a M36 from 700m range.
There are also first hand stories from M10 crewmembers getting hits on the sides of Panthers and not penetrating. In one story a M10 fired 3 rounds at less than 400m and none penetrated. A M36 rolled up moments later and killed two Panthers with one shot each.
wow how much side armor did the panther have? 40mm right?
That's weird, because you say at SHORT range it took 2 shots from the Panther to kill you. I always have thought of the M10 as a notsogood tank overall, since it doesn't really have a good gun and almost no armor against the new German tanks. I use the M36 whenever I can since it has a good gun if not good armor. That way, if you have the drop on a panther/tiger you won't need to take a second shot. Hey everybody! I'm an advertiser from M36 Tank Destroyer Inc., use our M36s whenever you can! Hedge-cutting action! Won't need much ammo for our high quality 90-mm guns! 1S1K guaranteed with our M36s! not a guarantee Cheers, from Gemini's wurst nitemare.
Panther owns the M10. Hands down. And if it's brought up to proper frontal-armour spec: fuhgeddaboudit!
M-10 is a tank hunter: light armour, big gun. Good for ambushes, not for frontal assault. Panther is late war medium tank: strong armour, big high velocity gun, high speed...you don't want him to spot you first.
The advantage of any tank-hunter is the element of surprise and the long, patient waiting for any enemy tank to pass by.
Choose some choke points or strategic places where enemy tanks are bound to pass (on their way to flags, for example). M10 and similar tank-hunters are good for hiding, hunting, firing and reposicioning. Just like a sniper, but with a bigger gun.
They are better used in a DEFENSIVE role, rather than offensive.
It is rather hard to hide with the way the game engine is now,if you have some of your settings on low you can see though bushes and fog way better then with the settings maxed out,course the game looks like crap like that but some do it anyway,me I like the settings maxed as the game needs all the help it can get. I belive FH2 will be a diffrent story on being able to hide,this is just a case of the FH team being way ahead of what the BF engine is able to do and how it plays. The best thing that works for me is yes, watch the choke points but get some distance from it,provided you are good enough to hit targets from far away,( I am not)the downside is if you team needs armor support you have to get there without being killed,had to do in allied tanks vs the german one's,or what I try to do is always go axis becuse of the armor is so much better, and no I do not use tigers or the KT's. CrimeScene
thanks for the responses. i didn't know m10 was that weak!
And you say its a tank destroyer, "weak armor, big gun, good mobility" but it happens that in BF42 it 1. has bad armor, here and in RL. 2. Didn't/Doesn't have good gun at all. 3. You can't run over trees, if your waiting in a forest and he sees you, you will die, cuz you can't get away.