Unofficial List of Stuff in FH2 - updated -1 reply

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wjlaslo

I've defected to the Pies

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12th August 2004

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#181 13 years ago
A_tree;4061422If your referring to the quality of steel used in tanks, then i find it hard to believe that British steel was inferior to German. By the end of the war due to the lameness of German industry, German steel was of a very poor quality. I've read somewhere that the quality was so poor that Russian tankers where more concerned with Tiger Is, than the Tiger IIs.

Thus I was specific and said the Tiger I's armor was close to equal any British tank. If I wasn't specific enough, it's my fault.

Could you point me in the direction of some ballistic tests that the Tigers gun could penetrate the Centurions armor from that far away. Seems stupid to use a tank for so long, even when contemporary AT guns could take it with relative ease.

I remember looking up some stats on German AT guns so I could go on some Pershing-bashing; most tests of the Tiger IIB's gun could pentrate about 150-180mm at 1.5 km.

The Tiger tank was basically just a copy of the KV,

"Designed as a heavy assault tank capable of breaking through enemy defenses, the project started as early as 1937."-WWII Book of Tanks

the panther a copy of the t34. So no, the Germans didn't come up with these kinds of heavy tanks. Also wasn't the centurion the first real MBT, and so not really a copy of anything.

The T34 and Panther were both technically medium tanks (I never said they were heavies) but the Panther could equal many of the British "heavy cruisers". "In effect the Germans took the best points of the T34 and added their own tank's best points."-WWII Book of Tanks Put briefly, the Tiger was almost entirely the German's design (KV1 and 2 design would have influenced it slightly; however I think the example of the heavy French tanks would have been a better example to base it off of). The Panther was partly Soviet-developed (when you think about it) but the Germans improved it and took it to the level far above the T34. My argument was the same as the American tank designers' later in the war: The Allies had no tanks that could go on a one-on-one basis with the Tigers. So when you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Make your own. So came about the M6, M26, Centurion, Comet, and Challenger tanks. Personally, I would say that the Char B1 bis or the Tiger were the first somewhat modern MBTs. But that's up to you on what you think; some people say it was the KV series, and so on.




chaplain_DMK

GF Pwns Me!

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22nd August 2007

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#182 13 years ago

sry, ment FW190... and the Tiger was the worst type of MTB if u made it in to one The MBT is a superb design that encorporates good weaponry effective against both infantry and other armour, good mobility, speed, range and weight Now a tiger is certanly not a good MBT... Its slow, mechanicly unreliable, heavy, mediocre speed... A Centrurion on the other hand eaven tough as heavy as a tiger it was better armed, armored, mechanicly reliable, range... and the 105 was far better than an 88 mounted on the Tigers, PS the cent. used a 105 mm gun, a 17 pounder is a 76mm And i also did research... the 88 would glance off at 1km from a Centurion, CUZ IT HAD 150mm OF SLOPED ARMOUR! that means like 190mm of armour while the 105 (NOT THE 17 POUNDER) could go trough 170mm of armour at 1.5km i think...




cagey1

I don't spend enough time here

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22nd February 2004

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#183 13 years ago

Just a few Sherman tank historical notes: 1) Shermans served with frontline Israeli units from 1946 through the 1967 Six-Day War. Israel acquired some of its original Shermans from Italian junkyards and later purchased additional Shermans from France. The Israelis continually updated their Shermans with weapon, armor and power plant improvements. Iraeli self proplelled guns built on old Sherman hulls were still being used during the 1982 war in Lebanon. 2) In the 1956 war with Egypt, both Eqypt's and Israel's tank forces included Shermans. This resulted in a tragic friendly fire incident in which a unit of Israeli Shermans mistook another Iraeli Sherman unit as Arabs, and destroyed eight tanks before proper identification was made. 3) Israeli Shermans fought pitched battles with Jordanian M-47 and M-48 Patton tanks in 1967. 4) The last tank battle of WWII might have ocurred in 1967 if Israeli Shermans had stumbled upon any of the Panzer IV tanks and Sturmgeschutz IV assault guns Syria had earlier acquired from France. Source: Military Heritage Magazine,December 2007, article by Christopher Miskimon




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#184 13 years ago

The sherman tank is a classic..

the Sherman was the MBT of the allies in all the fronts.. pacific, and europe (africa too)

that's rights, is easy to destroy, but the sherman is easy to build, and faster too

the problem on the german tanks, their factory's are destroyed, by bomber's incursions




jumjum

Write heavy; write hard.

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10th April 2005

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#185 13 years ago
cagey1;4064315Just a few Sherman tank historical notes:....

A very important additional fact is that the Israelis up-gunned the Sherman into a "Super Sherman". In the early 1950's Israel made a purchase from the French of the high-velocity CN 75-50 75 mm gun, which was used in the AMX-13 tank. This 75 was closely modeled on the German 75mm KwK 42 L/70 used in the Panther. The up-gunned Sherman was dubbed the M-50, and a counterweight was added to the turret for balance, giving the Super Shermans a much more menacing and modern look.

Pics here: M-50 (Supersherman)

By the time of the 1967 Six-Day War, the Israelis had made even more improvements in their Shermans by upgrading to the French 105 mm CN 105 F1 gun, a devastatingly effective gun. These were designated the M-51.

Some great photos here: M-51 (Isherman)

A quick comparison of the M-50 and M-51:

M50_c.jpgM51_c.jpg M-51

But there was even further life in the old Sherman when the Israelis down-gunned the M-50/51 and put a 60mm HVMS gun (Hyper Velocity Medium Support) in tank in the early 1980s. This gun was the result of collaboration between Israel and Italy. It was basically a fast-firing gun for an armored personnel carrier, and used ultra-high speed ammunition: the projectile traveled at an unbelievably fast 1,620 meters per second (over 5,300 fps!!!). What actually hit the target was a penetrator rod which was just 17mm across, or slightly smaller than a US dime. It could go through 120mm of armor at a 60 degree slope at 2000 meters. And the gun could fire 20-30 times a minute. These M-60 Shermans never saw service in Israel, but were sold instead to Chile in the early 1980s. Some also made their way to Lebanese militia friendly to Israel.

Pics and info here: M-60 (HVMS)




chaplain_DMK

GF Pwns Me!

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22nd August 2007

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#186 13 years ago

an MBT is a class of tank, a sherman was a Medium tank, these were probably the clossest things to MBTs that existed back then. As i said, an MBT combines the best features of a light, medium and heavy tank in to one hard hitting pacage. And the sherman wasnt fast (to my surprise it was only as fast as a tiger!38.5 km/h and eaven that for a brief time) As for the Abrams, wjlasloThe2nd I wouldnt call 50 km/h off road slow for a tank...




LIGHTNING [NL]

FH2 Developer

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30th May 2003

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#187 13 years ago

Unstuck, since all weapons and vehicles can be found both on the website and the wiki.