Unrealistic wide bunker openings -1 reply

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Mdbook

BFWorld Staff Member

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15th November 2003

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#31 14 years ago

Armin has a very solid point about the virtual vs real life. Ok...maybe it would be more realistic not to be owned every time you step into an mg position. However, as it currently is, its almost impossible for the Allies to break through on Charlie--not to mention all the artillery fire which can occasionally nail you. I personally want the battles more to come down to the in-bunker fights, rather than me pointing my mg42 and clicking for easy frags.

You may get shot a lot but if you are quick with your reflexes you can take out 6-7 allies before your killed. It isn't that easy to kill an MGer, especially when there are several of them laying down a field of fire.

(And on a side note, hiding behind a bunker while an Angel is on full auto can be pretty scary, definitely does not make you want to stick your head out at all).




S1l3ntSt4lk3r

I'm too cool to Post

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27th May 2004

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#32 14 years ago

This is a game. Not a war simulator. I agree with BOW but not his ways to get to the devs. I say BOW tries modelling before he can judge.




Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#33 14 years ago

You asked for this.....

You want to now how the allies would have a better chance in those beach landing maps with the bunkers being modelled more realistic and functional ( better protected ) ?

Real allies had dozens of battleships, cruisers and destroyers that had heavily shelled that entire sector before the attack, destroying bunkers, wounding, killing and mentally confusing Germans and wrecking equipment. If that massive bombardment had not taken place, the allies would have never succeeded breaking through the defenses.

Some contradict this with sites and facts, but i am pretty convinced the ships continued bombardment during the landings, only shifted their fire more inland to destroy the bunkers and defenses that were positioned more inland and disrupt/prevent reinforcements being brought foreward !!

And here we are, in FH attacking with 2 or 3 mighty LCVP......what a force !!! And Germans crawling all over the place, instead of being in the bunkers ( where they are shot a stunned bunnies, so that is understandable )

Were there at least a battleship, cruiser or destroyer there would not be Germans hopping merrily around, camping on dunetops, running on the beach or doing loads of other stuff, except sheltering in their bunkers from huge naval cannon impacts. The large German guns in the map would make more sense too then....they were anti-naval guns......

These impacts - if aimed carefully - can blind bunker gunners for several seconds with dust and debris.

Naval artillery would therefore : 1) Help keep the Germans inside the bunkers reducing allies being camped from all over the ridges and dunes 2) Blind the mg gunners in the buildings so they are far less effective mowing down helpless infantry on the beach.

And helpless infantry they should be, untill they are close enough to attack the bunkers with explosives. Shooting the mg gunners and bunker occupants through the bunker openings from the beach should be nearly impossible, because that is the way they were constructed IRL.




Lobo

All your base are belong to FH

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27th April 2003

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#34 14 years ago

But Beast, about my Omaha bunkers: if I make more narrow the window is the same, if a german soldier can see the outside to shoot, an allied bullet can kill him from outside, even narrow you can always hit the german head from outside. I think is funny this discussion save-the-poor-charlie-germans, man, I was killed 1675 times runing that damn beach in 0.65, we have done changes to the map, I just hope we have not over-reacted this time... because then, poor germans, it will be a slaughter ***evil revenge laugh***




Tas

Serious business brigade

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4th September 2004

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#35 14 years ago

IIRC germans didnt suffer till the Allies made it up there.. Wasnt FH a realism mod instead of a balanced game with fair chances for all?




Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#36 14 years ago

If you make the bunker openings more narrow, heads can still be shot from outside :yes and that is good.

But it will be much more difficult......that is all i was suggesting/asking.

Laying down on the floor of a bunker not to be shot isn't really what soldiers would do in a combat zone bunker now ?




LaMuse

Read a lot, write little...

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16th August 2004

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#37 14 years ago

BOW

MG42 from the inside

bunker6.jpg

Wich the FH devs in question did quitte right :)

Well funny because I personnally think that this bunker is the easiest to shoot at while running on the beach as American (so without sniper kit, just the carabine). Indeed you just need to aim on the window to almost certainly get a good shoot. On the contrary on the wide opened bunker, localising the mg man is harder as he moves more (except for the sniper of course). Still I agree with BOW: the opening are too big, I mean too high. And certainly there should not be a direct back door to the outside but some corners before getting into the bunker. All in all I understand completely BOW and agree with him: one should not get shooted while in the bunker, or only very rarely. That is much annoying when you know that getting into an mg position is a kind of suicidal move. On a map like Omaha, although I almost always play American (run Forrest run! :lol: ), I still believe they should not be able to really hit the mgs in the bunker. It's all a matter of getting them occupied while the boys run on the beach. That's why I appreciate when some players shoot the bunkers with the boats' mgs. They do not hit a sh... but 1- attract enemy fire 2- force bunker occupants to get down All that is time for the infantry to move on. I think the proposition of BOW is good: give the amys one or two cruisers (actually like in vanilla) so that the germans must duck and keep inside their bunker. If some good arty guys even manage to blind the bunker occupants, amys have their chance back. On the other side, let's make the bunker's mg really hard to shoot from the outside. Still the problem the devs are confronted with is what Lobo just wrote:

if a german soldier can see the outside to shoot, an allied bullet can kill him from outside, even narrow you can always hit the german head from outside.

So if you can shoot on someone from the bunker, then you can get shoot from the outside. That is not realism but game logic. And I think they will have many difficulties changing this point. No matter how small the bunker opening, once you get your crosshair on it, you hardly can miss (especially as sniper). On the contrary, as I wrote before, the smaller the opening, the easier it is, as you just know exactly where to shoot, even without sniper kit. So I would finally propose for a map like Omaha: - get the bunkers openings smaller - no direct back door exit, make corners (although the Omaha bunkers are already very good on that point) - remove the sniper kit for the Amys - give the Amys one or two cruiser and run Forrest run... !




Skipster

I live on Gaming Forums

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29th July 2004

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#38 14 years ago
MkH^Actually, as Beast explained, the idea of bunkers is, that you can't be shot while you can shoot the enemy.

Actually, the idea of the bunker is that the enemy is so busy dodging your fire, he doesn't have the chance to stop and put an aimed round into your forehead. That's IRL. In FH, nobody's scared of the MG42 (they just respawn if killed). So why not stop and aim and shoot through the firing port? What have you got to lose? And it's simple (physics?). Unless your bunker is equipped with a mantlet, or you are using an indirect-fire weapon, there is no such thing as "you can't be shot while you can shoot the enemy". There is only "you are less exposed than the enemy". If you want more realistic-looking bunkers, fine. But making the openings smaller is not going to stop people sniping the gunners. You want to stop people sniping the gunners? Make them afraid to stop and shoot. If you can sight down the barrel of an MG through the opening, you are vulnerable to a headshot from any location you can see, no matter how small the opening is. The bullets that kill you are going to kill you anyway.




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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9th December 2003

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#39 14 years ago
SkipsterIn FH, nobody's scared of the MG42 (they just respawn if killed). So why not stop and aim and shoot through the firing port? What have you got to lose?

Well that is easy to "fix": for bf1942 set the resawn time to 20-30 seconds, for bf2: well stupidity is said to be punished by an extra long loadtime, if this doesn't apply to rambo's charging an fortified MG position/bunker then too apply here 20-30 sec respawn time. Too bad that we cant have the game "know" when you die by your own stupidity (causing you to wait 20 seconds or more) and bad luck (just resawn in +/- 5 seconds or less.




BossDave

Gaming forever

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26th September 2004

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#40 14 years ago

I completely agree with you Beast, it would be cool to have more realistic bunkers. I think this is a very good idea and would be well worth doing for the next full release of FH. I found I would always get killed in them pacific bunkers, so now I never go near them. They simply dont offer enough protection to a player. In my opinion the best way to attack a fortified bunker should be with a flamethrower not a gun. But sadly I dont think we will ever see flameys in FH. :( And their should already be Battleships and destroyers in Omaha Charlie sector anyway. This map is way too over balanced in favour of the germans, please devs think about balancing this map out better.