Why AT infantry vs tanks is redicuous in FH -1 reply

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Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#1 15 years ago

Shaped charge weapons like the bazooka, panzerfaust, piat and panzerschreck all work like an incredible powerfull blowtorch but with a very limited burning time.

When a shaped charge weapon ignites it produces a plasma jet that cuts through whatever material. Even air.

When tanks were increasingly destroyed by infantry carrying such weapons that were ideal for them since they not depend on kinetic energy to penetrate armour, solutions were sought after and found. And they were often surprisingly simple but effective.

A shaped charge weapon turned out to be easily defeated by igniting it before it touched the armour, by making it first cut through other materials, including air.

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Russians used chicken wire to ignite the shaped charge too early and make it burn up before it touched the armour of the tank. The shaped charge wasted it's plama jet in thin air.

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British used extra layers of material to make shaped charge weapon waste their plasma jet on.......they attached parts of track along their tank's side. Also solutions with simple sandbags are known.

Americans were known to poor thick layers of concrete over their armour, so the plasma jet cut wasted much of it's energy cutting through the concrete and was to weak to then cut through the armour.

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Germans used spaced armour, wich just like the russians made a shaped charge waste it's plasma jet cutting trough a thin plate and then air instead of armour.

Other solutions were also used, like attaching felled tree logs to the side of the tank.......any material would do, as long as it ignited the shaped charge too early and make it waste it's energy on material that was not the tanks armour.




Heinrich Blotgrasse

XXIX Panzerkorps

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2nd November 2003

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#2 15 years ago

Interesting post......seems to me that the PzIVH should almost be immune to Bazooka and Piat rounds.

???




Beast of War

Born to kill

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#3 15 years ago

Why did i post this....well you can conclude once they discovered how to counter shaped charges with simple means, how effective panzerfausts and other infantry carried shape charge launchers really were......

They most probably were next to useless...

That is why high velocity (tank) cannons and field guns could not be replaced or missed as the weapon against other tanks. There were millions of panzerfausts produced, but proportionable few of them were ever used against tanks. The troops used them commonly as demolition charges against structures instead.......shaped charge will cut through virtually any material.....concrete aswell.

Once this information is properly checked and discussed, i think some vehicle hating devs have a problem. Their rediculous strong AT infantry class is not based on reality. ( asif i ever doubted that )

Tanks were used to spearhead massive offenses and break trhough enemy ( infantry ) lines. They could not do that if they were shot by the first infantry soldier they ran into.....

I think FH devs can't escape rebalancing tanks vs infantry. Tanks should not be targets for infanty, but fearsome multi ton weighing killing machines that are hard to stop....you need tank destroyers, other tanks, and field guns for that. And aircraft and artillery.

Tanks should not flee from infantry ( current situation in FH now ) but infantry flee from tanks......that was reality.




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

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17th July 2003

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#4 15 years ago

Heinrich BlotgrasseInteresting post......seems to me that the PzIVH should almost be immune to Bazooka and Piat rounds.

???

Yup, and shaped charge A/t rounds, shaped charge A/T grenades, etc.




Artie Bucco

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27th April 2003

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#5 15 years ago
Anlushac11Yup, and shaped charge A/t rounds, shaped charge A/T grenades, etc.

From what i can infer these shaped charge defenses would be defeated in a few shots similar to modern explosive reactive armor? Would be great to have it coded so that these shields can defend from one or three shots but not be totaly immune from shaped charges.




Beast of War

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#6 15 years ago

Heinrich BlotgrasseInteresting post......seems to me that the PzIVH should almost be immune to Bazooka and Piat rounds.

???

Yes it was......only not in FH ofcourse :mad:




[tR]Mad Mac

Aerospace Engineering FTW!

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19th May 2004

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#7 15 years ago

While I totally agree with you about how FH would be more realistic with this feature implemented, it would make infantry useless on 90% of the maps.




Kakoru

I live on Gaming Forums

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19th February 2004

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#8 15 years ago

BoW, I believe everyone knew this before! :) Btw, we can't make tanks too strong though...if anything, maybe make tanks weaker? I hate to see tanks going alone without any infantry at all... Now that's more unrealistic... Eitherway, what's the use of having pfaust, bazooka, piat or whatever if it gets useless in FH? It's not like it can blow up concrete walls or anything.. Tanks are fine.. they are fun enough to use and fun enough to defend against.




{SmB}IcelanDick

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12th June 2004

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#9 15 years ago

I completely see your point BoW, but without infantry able to take out tanks, you'd have a lot of players just hiding, unable to do anything. Who'd want to play a game like that? I do agree that the fausts and shrecks are a bit strong. I find myself playing as the AT class a bunch now. Not sure how to fix it though cause you're going to have people on both sides of the fence.




S1l3ntSt4lk3r

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#10 15 years ago

dont forget BOW

FH is also a game too

if the devs even think about doing something like this, FH will turn into a tank simulator