Will our beloved ships still be here? -1 reply

Please wait...

Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

50 XP

2nd May 2005

0 Uploads

6,274 Posts

0 Threads

#41 13 years ago
Killed in First Minute;3597592No I disagree FB, moving the carrier in Midway and Adak undoubtedly preserved them in those maps. But I suspect it mainly preserved them from the enemy ships which would have cruised to the carrier's spawn point and blown the snot out of it.

Except in new Midway, Adak and Coral Sea (which is obviously moot), preserving ships from aircraft is largely irrelevant. They almost never come in sufficient numbers and coordination, as the focus in other air-vs-sea maps is on land or naval fighting, and air-to-ship is mainly auxiliary. Old Midway takes quite a bit of aerial whamming before a carrier sinks, and most carrier wrecking is done with ships.

In Adak, the greatest threat to the Axis team, period, is the B-25. The Fletcher first has to get through the Hatsuzuki (which it may even not.) However, the Japanese team relies pretty much to 99% on two ships, which are easily murdered very quickly. Moving the carrier buys just that much more time, throws off many not-1337 B-25 drivers, and gives Axis a fighting chance.

I usually either go backing around the map clockwise, or take a chance and do my usual cheesy tactic of moving the carrier to the Allied harbor, which has worked for me 9 out of 10 times. In all of these cases, it's because the B-25, P-38 and P-40 had to look for me a little bit longer, giving my AA & Zero a chance to neutralize one or more of them, or causing them to miss with a few bombs.

In new Midway, it's CRUCIAL to move the carriers, all of them, fast. The starting locations are known very well, and the air units are the main offensive elements. Especially the B-17 and B-26 can demolish a Jap carrier in 1, maximum 2 runs. If you're feeling charitable, wait a second while your guys take off, then go hauling ass, or just drive them backwards, they go just as fast. If someone can't take off from a backwards-moving carrier, they shouldn't be flying, and Zeroes can almost always take off from a forward moving vehicle.

Carriers move fast once they're at speed, and are surprisingly maneuverable. You won't always escape air units, but have a pretty good chance of getting away by the time an enemy's buddies have arrived after he spots you (unless he hangs around, in which case your air/AA should deal with him.)

My point is that this is basically a choice between guaranteed, fast death if you stay still, and possible survival (with a high probability that you'll live long enough to make a difference) combined with a bit of inconvenience for some of your pilots (life is harsh, deal with it, grab an AA gun.)

So you can disagree, but this is based on pretty extensive observational experience.




It's Happy Fun Ball!

aka Killed in First Minute

50 XP

21st October 2005

0 Uploads

1,297 Posts

0 Threads

#42 13 years ago

Honestly Fuzzy, I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about now:

Fuzzy Bunny;3597670 Except in new Midway, Adak and Coral Sea (which is obviously moot), preserving ships from aircraft is largely irrelevant. They almost never come in sufficient numbers and coordination, as the focus in other air-vs-sea maps is on land or naval fighting, and air-to-ship is mainly auxiliary. Old Midway takes quite a bit of aerial whamming before a carrier sinks, and most carrier wrecking is done with ships.[/quote] That was what I was saying, and i agree it is even more true in old Midway. Moving the carrier helps preserve you from enemy ships cruising to your carrier's spawn point.
Fuzzy Bunny;3597670In Adak, the greatest threat to the Axis team, period, is the B-25. The Fletcher first has to get through the Hatsuzuki (which it may even not.) However, the Japanese team relies pretty much to 99% on two ships, which are easily murdered very quickly. Moving the carrier buys just that much more time, throws off many not-1337 B-25 drivers, and gives Axis a fighting chance. [/quote] I actually don't know what "not-1337 B-25 drivers" means. I assume it means either bad drivers, or not elite drivers. (Personally, I think it does too much damage.) And while moving the carrier undoubtedly helps some, I just don't think it helps much. The carrier is moved often on these maps, but it only helps preserve it from planes on rare occasions.
Fuzzy Bunny;3597670I usually either go backing around the map clockwise, or take a chance and do my usual cheesy tactic of moving the carrier to the Allied harbor, which has worked for me 9 out of 10 times. In all of these cases, it's because the B-25, P-38 and P-40 had to look for me a little bit longer, giving my AA & Zero a chance to neutralize one or more of them, or causing them to miss with a few bombs.[/quote] BTW, I once saw a suggestion that the planes should be turned around to take off the back of the carrier, that made so much sense to me I had difficulty dealing with reality for a few days. [quote=Fuzzy Bunny;3597670]In new Midway, it's CRUCIAL to move the carriers, all of them, fast. The starting locations are known very well, and the air units are the main offensive elements. Especially the B-17 and B-26 can demolish a Jap carrier in 1, maximum 2 runs. If you're feeling charitable, wait a second while your guys take off, then go hauling ass, or just drive them backwards, they go just as fast. If someone can't take off from a backwards-moving carrier, they shouldn't be flying, and Zeroes can almost always take off from a forward moving vehicle.
Totally agree, again the heavy bombers are just too powerful in this map, imho. Once the heavys find enemy carrier it doesn't last long. [quote=Fuzzy Bunny;3597670]Carriers move fast once they're at speed, and are surprisingly maneuverable. You won't always escape air units, but have a pretty good chance of getting away by the time an enemy's buddies have arrived after he spots you (unless he hangs around, in which case your air/AA should deal with him.)
They move quick, and it buys you a few seconds, but the maps just aren't that big so it's not hard to figure out which way the carrier went. I cannot remember it ever taking longer than a minute to relocate a fleeing carrier from a plane. [quote=Fuzzy Bunny;3597670]My point is that this is basically a choice between guaranteed, fast death if you stay still, and possible survival (with a high probability that you'll live long enough to make a difference) combined with a bit of inconvenience for some of your pilots (life is harsh, deal with it, grab an AA gun.) So you can disagree, but this is based on pretty extensive observational experience.

I don't disagree that moving the carrier helps preserve it, I'm just saying that it mostly preserves it from enemy ships, not planes. Bomber pilots who go hunting the carrier rarely fail to find it just cause it has moved. (or is moving)




zuiquan1

Ore o Dare da to Omotte Yagaru

50 XP

4th March 2006

0 Uploads

1,322 Posts

0 Threads

#43 13 years ago
NTH_NL;3597427A bit off topic.. but the battleship mod it seems the deck guns on the allegiance ship don't always responds when I fire them. Or is this done to simulate loading the gun.

Not to drag this off topic anymore, but the guns have a long reloading time, and they have to load when you first get in them...so plan your shots well....you also cant jump around in the guns rapid firing....as every time you switch gun positions it has to reload.....I like it, but its also a necessary evil, if you will, for having 2 different types of shells for each gun....

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread :p




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

50 XP

2nd May 2005

0 Uploads

6,274 Posts

0 Threads

#44 13 years ago
Killed in First Minute;3597722Honestly Fuzzy, I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about now:

No clue, I'm tired. I just like moving carriers and telling whiners to piss off.

That was what I was saying, and i agree it is even more true in old Midway. Moving the carrier helps preserve you from enemy ships cruising to your carrier's spawn point.

Right, you are correct. I am also saying it gets you away from planes once you've been spotted and sometimes helps you dodge bombs from non-1337 (i.e. non-elite) bomber jockeys.

(Personally, I think it does too much damage.) And while moving the carrier undoubtedly helps some, I just don't think it helps much. The carrier is moved often on these maps, but it only helps preserve it from planes on rare occasions.

This is where we disagree -- moving it almost always makes a huge difference for me. And no, the B-17 doesn't do too much damage at all (8x500lbs), it is just way too easy to fly and shouldn't be able to dive bomb. Comes out to the same thing in the end.

BTW, I once saw a suggestion that the planes should be turned around to take off the back of the carrier, that made so much sense to me I had difficulty dealing with reality for a few days.

That's hallucinogenic. I always actually find it kind of hilarious when a plane camper in a TORPEDO BOMBER slowly slides off the back of the flight deck while I'm driving and under heavy attack and then screams about banning the carrier driver instead of grabbing a damn AA position.

Totally agree, again the heavy bombers are just too powerful in this map, imho. Once the heavys find enemy carrier it doesn't last long.

That's my thing -- if you're moving it well, if you survive the first B-17 or B-25 attack, you have a chance of losing them, throwing off their aim, etc.

They move quick, and it buys you a few seconds, but the maps just aren't that big so it's not hard to figure out which way the carrier went. I cannot remember it ever taking longer than a minute to relocate a fleeing carrier from a plane.

That's fine, but not with a plane that makes a huge difference (i.e. a multiple-bomb heavy.) A single scouting SBD or Val can dump a load, assuming it survives the AA and possible fighters (assuming you have AA and not just whining plane campers) but by the time his buddies show up, no go. I've seen a carrier on new Midway (the last Jap carrier) survive for more than 10 minutes at about 5% health by tearing across the map backwards with all the Allies looking for him.




It's Happy Fun Ball!

aka Killed in First Minute

50 XP

21st October 2005

0 Uploads

1,297 Posts

0 Threads

#45 13 years ago

Ok, its the end of the day and I am not going to play cut and past with the quote commands. I seem to remember agreeing with you in the past about the B-25 acting like a dive bomber. I know there were B-25's in the battle of Midway, but they bombed from maximum altitude, above the flak and too high for the Zeros, they didn't hit a damn thing either. If the B-25's aren't going to act that way, they shouldn't be there. Fuzzy, you point out that IF your plane camping teammates actually MAN the AA guns, you can hold off air attacks while moving the carrier. In that case however, I think it is the AA's that are saving your flat-tops butt, not the movement. Consider Coral Sea, where the carriers are fixed in well known locations, but often survive quite some time because all the AA guns are manned. I'm not sure if we are even arguing anymore, screw it, it's the end of the day, I'm going to go see '300'.




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

50 XP

2nd May 2005

0 Uploads

6,274 Posts

0 Threads

#46 13 years ago

KiFM, I'm not saying IF they man the AA, I'm saying it helps if they do. Point being moving helps carriers live longer, under any kind of attack -- air or sea (you are correct that you can find it by air if you're looking, but it is not assured and a lot harder if the carrier is hauling ass out of Dodge.)

And yes, the B-17s, because of the way they can attack in FH vs. how they could attack in RL, as you say, is obscene and obnoxious (albeit fun if you're driving it.) For B-25s you can at least argue that they were used often as tac bombers and low-level attacks, same with B-26s even, but still...

Have fun at the movie, I'm going to dinner with girlfriend.




General_Henry

Veteran Tanker

50 XP

29th April 2006

0 Uploads

1,699 Posts

0 Threads

#47 13 years ago
Killed in First Minute;3597592No I disagree FB, moving the carrier in Midway and Adak undoubtedly preserved them in those maps. But I suspect it mainly preserved them from the enemy ships which would have cruised to the carrier's spawn point and blown the snot out of it. If I am flying, it is never hard to find the enemy carrier. It is usually on the edge of the map somewhere, and once it is found, I broadcast it's location to my whole team. Oh hey, just had a thought: Random Spawn Locations for Ships. (Is this possible?)

no, i would prefer they only spawn once and fight only a single engagement see, my points create a brilliant environment for pure sea engagements.

http://forums.filefront.com/fh2-suggestions/301113-ideal-fh2-sea-warfare-thread.html




Ronin Pedroshin

GF is my bext friend *hugs GF*

50 XP

13th June 2004

0 Uploads

878 Posts

0 Threads

#48 13 years ago

It's not 100% true that vehicles on top of another immediatly explode. For testing that I've used the Battleship mod, which is an amazing mod by the way, and landed an airplane on top of the carrier (the airplanes are deployed by the aircraft carrier by pressing fire key while in captain cabin). See the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRc-_pBpKRU. It doesn't really explode, but keeps sliding and bumping on the surface, which continually damages it slowly. Still, if there was any way possible to keep it still like in BF1942, in which it would only "detach" from the carrier's surface when someone got into the plane and turned on the engine (remember those times when the carrier so was moving so fast that you couldn't take off because you would slide back into the water?), perhaps it could work somehow?




Guest

I didn't make it!

0 XP

 
#49 13 years ago

Does anyone plays battleships online and can somebody explain me how to install the patch ?




General_Henry

Veteran Tanker

50 XP

29th April 2006

0 Uploads

1,699 Posts

0 Threads

#50 13 years ago
Ronin Pedroshin;3729198It's not 100% true that vehicles on top of another immediatly explode. For testing that I've used the Battleship mod, which is an amazing mod by the way, and landed an airplane on top of the carrier (the airplanes are deployed by the aircraft carrier by pressing fire key while in captain cabin). See the video here: YouTube - Battleship BF2 Mod: Piloting carrier with an airplane on top. It doesn't really explode, but keeps sliding and bumping on the surface, which continually damages it slowly. Still, if there was any way possible to keep it still like in BF1942, in which it would only "detach" from the carrier's surface when someone got into the plane and turned on the engine (remember those times when the carrier so was moving so fast that you couldn't take off because you would slide back into the water?), perhaps it could work somehow?

that's the great "hold object" code :)