Advanced Marksmanship 26 replies

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#21 13 years ago

I didn't think it was to hard. I scored expert on my first try with 38/40.




Finity

Atleast I have chicken....

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#22 13 years ago

I scored 40/40 on my first try with Basic Marksmanship and didn't relize there was other training (I mean any other training AT ALL) until a week or 2 later lol. REMEMBER: Press H to use your Bipod with the M24 and the Barret Sniper rifles cause it will lower your swaying by almost half!




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#23 13 years ago

:), 'member Finity, 10 out of 10 cows agree, Eat MORE CHICKEN ! This is a true story and might qual for one of those 'Highlights Of My Military Career' sections (*my posting on 'Fat Boy Class' lurks somewhere): I began rifle marksmanship training at age 14 (high school ROTC) with the M1 Garand in 1958, 500 yard range, Camp Pendleton, CA. My father (USN, Gunnery Officer during WWII) had already started me on the .45ACP at age 9. Through the HS years, I developed the school's first rifle teams (the .30 cal and .22 Remington) in which we eventually did very well in State competitions. So, by the time I actually joined the USAF in 1962, I was quite proficient in a variety of weapons (and some may now know why I've posted often on the powers of the M1 Garand and of my luv of the M14). Anyway, getting to the marksmanship course at Lackland AB, July 1962- a record Black Flag heat oppressive year. We're all n00bs, right ? Well, they give us the M1 Carbine-great lil weapon if ya like spittin' 90grain FMJs against them's that got 168grainers. I think officers really got short changed with that weapon. Had better eyes in those days so not hard to see left/right shooter's targets on the line (most of which couldn't hit Grand Central Station from across the street). Knowing I would get 3 attempts to make minimum marksman weapon qualification, I would add my shots to the other guy's targets to boost their scores. This action, of course , was to my detriment and scores. But the other boyz passed with a few Xs to their credit. Now, faced with the threat of 3rd and last, or else 'Cook School for you !' alternative, I scored a 97/28x/100 on the lil ole POS M1 Carbine. Actually, I saved that target for years. The X was so highly disintegrated I was given credits for any shots out of the black (3). That was the first, of many to follow, Expert Qualifications. Eventually, someone read my 201 File and made me a courier and issued me a SW .38 Police, fixed sights. I bought my own Rem870, 12ga .




Finity

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#24 13 years ago

I guess I have a real life accomplishment, sorta....

A few years ago my school went to a camp for 3 days as a field trip and we fired .22 rifles (.22's arn't exactly the macho weapon and I relize that....) They didn't even let us use the longer .22 rifle rounds either. We used the regular pistol sized .22 bullets. (Unless you happen to own a .22 pistol that fires rifle rounds.) We were place at about 60-80 yards from the targets and we each got 10 shots. I hit the black circle in the center ever time (the black center was about the size of a baseball wich is larger than most small targets, so it wasn't too hard to get a full 10 bullzeye's.) BTW my school has a bunch of whimps so I wasn't too surprised by my fellow classmate's scores.

1. Me 10/10 2. Friend 1 1/10 3. Classmate 2 0/10

There was only one other person who even hit that large black center on the targets. I felt bad for them but I couldn't help but laugh, I apologized for laughing after that and to this day I haven't fired a gun other than that .22 rifle. I plan to get back into it soon but not sure when. It's not exactly a major accomplishment but it's the only story I have. If I can find the target and a camera I'll post it. I have plenty of airsoft guns and play paintball alot which both probably were a factor.

BTW when you said 45ACP do you mean you were firing Thompson Sub-machine guns when you were 9? My God that's awesome. I would love to go out and fire the M1 Garand and the carbine. Sound like you had a very interesting childhood.




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#25 13 years ago

Good gracious no, not the Thompson; though a few soldiers WWII era liked it, it truly was a .45 cal 'spray and pray' weapon. I was weaned on the .45 Govt pistol, M1911. Though popularized in Al Caponeish movies, the Thompson, in warfare, was outclassed by the Browning BAR, .30 cal, predecessor to the M60 and ultimately today's AR (though the M60 is still a primary .30 cal weapon). You can Google their historys. The earlier models (.45ACP) were adopted as a replacement for .38 cal weapons (research US involvement - Phillipine insurecctions). The .45ACP was meant for its point blank 'stopping power' as oppossed to say the rather wimpy, futile .38 Wembley types againts 'substance crazed' attackers. Glad to read you did well on your outting, :) . If you like weapons: Learn to handload; every rifle is as unique as the person you stand next to. None react the same, even to a bro' with a same production series serial number. The ultimate goal has always been: 5 shots, same hole, 100yds; yet to be achieved in my knowledge. My best was 3/8" group with a Springfield 1903A3, 100yds, the barrel (original) stamped 10/41, Speer 168g, BTHP; temperature, case, primer, grains, type of powder long ago forgotten. Nothing wrong with being a wimpy type; I was too; pocket protector, science club, chess club, et al; and yet I could shoot you in the eye, easily, 100 yards; your chances at 500 yards were not too much better. The knowledge of HOW to kill is never as important as knowing WHEN. This 'game' will not teach you that.




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#26 13 years ago

I knew plenty about the thompson and I disagree in a few instances when you say that the BAR replaced the thomspon. The Thompson was much lighter than the BAR and the BAR's ammo cartridges were usually so heavy that the gunner of the BAR had to have a man just to carry his ammo. I always see the BAR as the SAW of WWII, and the Thomspon as the M16 of WWII. The BAR was usually carried by one man in a squad and the Thompson/M1Garand/M1Carbine/Springfield/Etc... was carried by the rest. The M60 isn't used as a basic infantry weapon, it can be used as a Squad automatic weapon, but is mainly used in helicopters, and that's why it's hard to compare the thompson to the M60. Weapons such as the AK47,M14,M16,and a few of weapons designed by the Germans were all based from a design off of the thompson, but through the course of time was improved on. The BAR led to various SAW's and led to our current M249SAW. Which are a few other reasons why I have to disagree. If you could give me undeniable facts that could support what you said than I'll completely change my view (Links for example would be great!). If not, do you see what I mean?

And I'm not a very whimpy person, I'm actually the strongest person at my school, I swear on all that is Holy that my nickname is "The buffest geek ever" because I teach the computer teachers new things and they teach me new things, I also hack their networking systems in different ways then I show them how I did it and they block all the programs/shortcuts I use so that other students who attempt to hack the computers get dissapointed.

I enjoy reading your comments, you no doubtedly know your stuff.




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#27 13 years ago

Well, yes, you are correct about the weighty issue of the BAR but the fact remains, the Thompson was never a truly widely accepted WWII weapon. Yes, the BAR was the SAW of WWII and Korea as was it's replacement, the M60, in Viet Nam. I have stated elsewhere that their main disadvantage was that they were , ideally, 'crewed' weapons but could be singularly operated with heroic efforts. The M60 was a compromised assault weapon - it could still be used as such but it certainly has it's advantages over say a 'Maxim water cooled'. :) Ballistically, the BAR, or any .30 cal weapon, is superior to the .45ACP round, to wit, 230gr @ 845fps with effective range of 100yds vs 168gr, 2900fps, 1800m range. The .45 is like throwing a heavy rock at high speed but suited its purpose within reason; lotza rocks, very fast in up close 'n personal situations, "knock down power", hence the early 20th century change to .45ACP sidearm as opposed to the SW .38 Police types (learned by USA troops in the Phillipines). But you may note it didn't last long in the Army Arsenal. I understand the M60 quite well - I flew many a mile beside the door gunner during my Viet Nam deployment. You may find it has been redesigned into a more assault type weapon in that it is now a sholder fired, 3 shot burst weapon. With the need for speed requirements of today's Army, the .223 Rem is now the standard and so was developed the SAW249. Lotza rocks really fast with mobility. Only 1 problem with it - it can't punch steel or concrete worth a crap, but a .30 cal can. An example would be that a M1 Garand, 500yds, 3 shots will breach a cinder block wall...try that with a M16 or SAW. I got all day, wake me when you succeed. I've never hear that German weapons were ever based on Thompson designs but rather Mauser for bolts and Maxim for autos. If you've researched the points, I'll not dispute. See ya' at the front, Buffy, :) If ya' hear or see the AR used properly on either Bridge, it may be me.