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Serio VIP Member

The Dane

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11th November 2006

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#1 2 years ago

We should have acted. They're already here. The Gaming Gods told of their return; their defeat was merely a delay. 'Til the time after Fallout 4 was released, when the modders of Skyrim would spill their own blood. But no one wanted to believe, believe they even existed. And when the truth finally dawns, it dawns in cash. What I suspect is only the first step in a devious, draconian plan to monetise the modding industry has been taken by our beloved Bethesda. They've added a new layer of DRM to their recent game, Fallout 4. This layer is a "launcher"(as they so call it) that handles mods and addons. They claim it's a way for them to streamline the process and allow mods to be transferred to console, but it's quite obvious that it's the first step in creating a closed ecosystem that they can monetise.

Mind you, this isn't doomsaying. Bethesda has publicly stated on multiple occasions that they wish to monetise mods.

"But Serio," you ask. "Why is this such a bad thing? Surely these people should be compensated!"

Yes. Yes they should. But they should be compensated in a situation that doesn't reek of double standards. We can't buy a bloody sword for €0.79 whilst bashing Bethesda for releasing a DLC for €4.95, when the DLC has more content than the sword does. And the DLC has guaranteed compatibility with the rest of Bethesda's lineup, and may be modified by people at their leisure.

But mods? Mods don't have that. Most modders aren't going to allow you to make modifications to their work without asking for permissions. And what of licenses? Quality assurance? Fraud? There are far too many variables for any of this to be a consumer friendly environment.




random_soldier1337

I live on Gaming Forums

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17th June 2008

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#2 2 years ago

Last time that happened with Steam Workshop, there was a pretty strong backlash. So much so that I don't see gamers putting up with this. Well at least the PC gamers anyway, which I don't think is exactly in the minority. Besides that's where most of the quality mods are created and last time around, most mod creators also gave a very strong response against it especially with that whole "Forever Free" thing on nexusmods. I'm not sure how accurate this would be in a real situation but seeing as there are going to be a negligible number of quality mods in such a situation I can't see them making much of a profit. Are there really that many sheep to shear?

Also, not having played Fallout 4 (old machine), what exactly in this new update implicates them of trying to monetise mods beyond all doubt?




NeoRanger

The Curse of Snake

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29th August 2004

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#3 2 years ago

I have no love for Bethesda; ever since Oblivion and especially Horse Armor, it had become clear to me that they had lost the plot. Their last attempt in this mod thing was a disaster and I don't trust them in the slightest to handle this.

It could be done, on a voluntary basis, very small-scale, with safeguards. Bethesda was getting 75% of the earnings last time they did this, from where I stand they should be getting 5% at most and even that's only to avoid problems with the license(s). Bethesda couldn't be asked to provide tech support for broken mods, so unless either them or the platform (be it Steam or the equivelent networks on the consoles) let refund time open and covered by them (because good luck getting a modder that spent the money to refund a customer), there would be a major problem on that front.

Honestly, it's a disaster in the making. The idea of allowing modders to be compensated is good, the notion that some of the more talented ones will make their break in the industry is even better. But as the OP mentioned, there are too many holes that can't realistically be plugged, when you're dealing with individual creators that have no business or, honestly, legal responsibility.




Serio VIP Member

The Dane

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#4 2 years ago

Last time that happened with Steam Workshop, there was a pretty strong backlash. So much so that I don't see gamers putting up with this. Well at least the PC gamers anyway, which I don't think is exactly in the minority. Besides that's where most of the quality mods are created and last time around, most mod creators also gave a very strong response against it especially with that whole "Forever Free" thing on nexusmods. I'm not sure how accurate this would be in a real situation but seeing as there are going to be a negligible number of quality mods in such a situation I can't see them making much of a profit. Are there really that many sheep to shear?

Also, not having played Fallout 4 (old machine), what exactly in this new update implicates them of trying to monetise mods beyond all doubt?

Nothing in particularly implicates them as such, but they added an in-game "workshop". An in-game mod distribution mechanic, which is independent from the other mod managers and (to my knowledge) doesn't allow you to actually install mods from outside the game. You can, of course, still download a mod via the Nexus Mod Manager and install that, but you need the absolute latest version of NMM, since this implementation actually broke the Mod Manager.

Still, I'm perhaps calling to pitchforks too early. But I'll be surprised if they don't try this shit again.




Superfluous Curmudgeon VIP Member

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22nd December 2007

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#5 2 years ago

In the whole Steam monetization fiasco a lot of mod developers were upset because they felt that the backlash was undermining their hard work. While this is true, we must ask what the game developer deserves? How much is due compensation? The modding community is almost entirely volunteer-based and the only thing Bethesda has done has been to release a creation kit thus accommodating modders. Granted, this is quite a bit more support for mods than most other developers have given the modding community, but it's not like they keep creating new and better tools to justify them making money off of other people's mods. It's a terribly devious scheme to bring in a continuous stream of money for free. How about instead of trying to push the whole charging for mods thing, you continue doing what has very clearly made you successful - making good games? (yes, some of you don't like their new games, but your opinion isn't the majority)

As far as modders receiving compensation for mods, I'm not so sure about this either. In general, mods enhance gameplay but I at one point had over 150 mods installed, most of which I never even saw in the game. Paying $0.50 each would add up to a total cost of more than 4 times greater than what I paid for the game originally. If it came to that, I'd just stop buying all but maybe 5 must-have mods; mods that fixed things the developer was too lazy to fix themselves.

So no, I don't think this should become a thing. If a modder becomes good enough and loves creating content enough to start making a living off it, perhaps it's time for him/her to join a game dev company that sells games for money. And lots of content  creators have Patreon and other volunteer-based ways of accepting money from supporters according to how much supporters think the person's content is worth.

Edit: As far as creating a system that better integrates mods especially cross-platform I suppose I don't mind it, but to be fair the modding community has already created several mod managers that work very well. I use Mod Organizer and it's fantastic.




Lindale Forum Mod

Mister Angry Rules Guy

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1st February 2010

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#6 2 years ago

I do agree completely that decent modders should get credit. As I have said before, the best method is PayPal. There are some Skyrim mods that were good enough for me to throw money at the author. And if there was a PayPal link on their Nexus page, I absolutely would throw money at them.

But to straight-up hide the mods behind a paywall, no. That is the same as microtransactions in games, which I have also spoken at length of how those are nothing more than paid mods. You want this uniform? Pay me money! You want this gun? Pay me money! You want this car? Pay me money! No. That is pure Capitalist stupidity, and it needs to stop.

Give me a PayPal link. If the mod is any good, I will at least send you some lunch money.


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Strazdas

Fresh Meat

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7th May 2016

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#7 2 years ago

Right, so firstly if their concert was consoles they would have used it for consoles. SO thats out of the window. As far as paid mods go, there are multiple angles to look here.

First of all, Bethesda should recieve NOTHING from mod purchases. they already got paid when i bought the game. and yes that includes the dev kit. They now just want to ahve their cake and eat it too. fuck that. The only people making money should be people making mods and people hosting them (get paid for hosting).

Secondly, i am against paid mods in totality. Turning mods into paid endavor will turn what is a community based effort into capitalist shithole. we saw this happen whne they tried it with Skyrim - Midas has "updated" his mod to include popups every 5 spells you use demanding that you buy his mod. Yep, you now have advertisement popups in-game. It took a single day to get there.

Also worth mentioning that mod developement, especially the more complex one, is a multiplayer effort. one person finds out something, another uses it to develop a tool, a third one uses it to make some alterations and a fought one builds on those alternations making his own, completely different thing. Now imagine if none of those people could use other peoples work? What would that look like? well that would look like all mods looking like TF2 hats and CSGO skins. you know, exactly how it works where paid mods exist already.

tl;dr fuck paid mods and fuck bethesda




Lindale Forum Mod

Mister Angry Rules Guy

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#8 2 years ago

While Steam was doing the whole paid mods thingy, people were ripping Skyrim mods directly off the Nexus, and posting them on Steam. Steam did nothing about it.

So, have you pirated the latest mod?


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Mr. Matt VIP Member

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#9 2 years ago

I'm apathetic to the idea of letting people charge for mods. On the one hand, sure, eww capitalism, but on the other hand, it's giving modders a choice. And as some of the modders are capable of feats that put Bethesda to shame, I'd say letting them monetise their hard work is fair. So long as Bethesda lays out a comprehensive refund policy, and/or ensures that all mods offer a way to try them first, I don't really care one way or the other - although, I've never been one to download lots of mods really. As always, the market will decide which mods are worth paying for and which aren't. That's assuming this is what they're going to do, of course.

In other news, I've never held anything against Bethesda for the Horse Armour debacle. They were one of the first developers to try and use DLC, so they were in uncharted waters - they had no idea how much to charge for anything, or how much people were willing to pay, or how big a file people were willing to download... it was all unknown. They learnt from their mistake and are now one of the best DLC producers in the industry, in my opinion. Some of the DLC they release has more content than most other developer's full-price games.