Playing with Class -1 reply

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Slap leather, varmint!!!

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7th October 2003

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#1 14 years ago

I am sure that there will be many players who will disagree with me, but I want to voice my opinion on the way that some people play WildWest. Some will call me whiney, or a pissant. But... I want to play a game where I have a reasonable chance to win. I don't expect to win every time, but once in a while is OK. I want a somewhat level playing field, with either evenly matched teams, or fair and decent tactics. If one team is entirely comprised of newer players and the opposing team is comprised of veteran players, that match is going to be a rout. I expect that the players on the losing team will not think the game is very much fun. Let me give you an example: You are playing the Hacienda map, and you have an obviously weaker team. The defending team jumps the wall and comes all the way to the fence and attacks you shortly after leaving the spawn. You spend the entire 24 minutes trying to get past the fence. Is the other team spawn camping? No. Are their tactics illegal? No. But, in my mind, they are not playing with class and are just out to rub the attacker's nose in their defeat. Similarly, you are playing the Battle Creek map, and the defenders have come down the hill to the barn area and are killing you as you cross the bridge. Is this spawn camping? No. Is it illegal? No. But again, you play the entire match never having even seen the flag, let alone taken it. But, the same players would scream "spawn camping" if one of the attackers were to toss nades into the cemetary to kill the defenders as they came out of their spawn, even though the distances from the spawn were about the same for both bandits and cowboys. How about the Town map? You spend the entire time trying to cross the bridge while the defenders jump down the hill and are ambushing you in the water below the bridge. You never even get to the stables, let alone take the flag. If you played all three of these scenarios on the losing team, how much fun would it be for you? I suspect that many players would think "not much". What I think is sometimes lacking is sportsmanship, something that is also lacking in many other areas of life. Everyone knows what a "sore loser" is, but not many people seem to know what a "gracious winner" is. My idea of a gracious winner is someone who does not purposely pound the other team into a shutout and humiliates them. A gracious winner is someone who recognizes that his own team is going to win, and falls back and lets the other team get the flag. A gracious winner will jump to the losing team to help them out, realizing that they are giving up their spot on the "winning team". This is why games like golf and bowling have a handicap system built into the game so that a lesser player has a chance to compete against a more talented player. I know what some of the arguments against this type of thinking will be: It is just a game, play it as it is. As long as I am not breaking "the rules", then all is fair You are just a whiney loser, get over it. If you don't like it, don't play. All good rebuttals, but I still disagree. Will it kill a player to drop back and let the other team get the flag? You are going to win the game anyway, so what difference does it make? The difference it makes is that the other team will see you as a gracious opponent instead of a jerk who is kicking sand in their face. If I were playing in a competition, the types of aggressive tactics I describe would not be an issue. But the public servers are for players of all skill levels and temperments. What I seek is the type of game/match where the teams are evenly balanced, both in numbers and skill levels. Nothing is more enjoyable than fighting a match down to the final seconds, and having the winning team snatch a victory from the jaws of defeat, or losing by a well executed defensive move. Having the other team mop the floor with you is not fun, and I find it hard to believe that any player enjoys having this done to them. Can I be a whiney player? Yes. Can I be a sore loser? Sometimes. But, I am human and as such, I am subject to character flaws, just like everyone else in the world. I freely admit my flaws, so feel free to point them out, I will not deny it. It is for all of the above reasons that I sometimes send "whiney" messages while in the game. I am merely looking for a more level playing field. I am not asking for you to let me win, I am asking for a fighting chance. That is all.


Wild west mod of RTCW

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23rd April 2003

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#2 14 years ago

agree iggy .well with my ping iam at a huge disadvatage and enjoy the team work an mate ship ..iam there really for the enjoyment watching my mates, doit and well ....i do try of course:0wned: but its , the shear pleasure of seeing EL VAQUREO work magic + humer

however what do you think of the whole team jumping the wall ,on the beach map, if your the weaker team . never getting a chance to get out from spawn alive + with mounted going to :confused: its rough i recon igg...i mention it to some new players and was told abruptly to quickly get some good snipers and stop crying :rolleyes: my winge Lol

Gringo Starr

Green Whorn

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7th May 2003

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#3 14 years ago

I agree Ig. There's not much I could add to the document you wrote. :)

Yeah, Beach invites that sort of thing DeadEye. I think it's the lack of panzers and airstrikes which makes it harder in WildWest.

Hfx-Rebel VIP Member

AzH owns my ass

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15th March 2004

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#4 14 years ago

very elegant way of putting it iggy, let me add one, i was playin last week, it was 3 on 3, the lowest ping on my team was 120ish, the lowest on the other was 60, the next was high 70's. after about 10 mins of just being sniped continuously without reaching the bridge, one of the players on my team stated that we couldn't compete with their low pings...after that, they stopped being snipers and the game actually continued on, of coarse, we lost, but its alot more fun when you have a fighting chance! i know i've played numerous games and had either AE or dragon suggest we let them get the first flag, simply for the reasons you stated--i think this is very commendable, whereas, myself included, the thought probly never crosses anybody elses mind (IMO) i think players on a superior team should put themselves in the other teams spurs and consider how they themselves would feal and act accordingly. one other thought on this--and i see it alot: the teams are even, but say the defenders arn't givin up any ground...somebody else joins, but instead of joining the attacking team, they join the defending team, just so they can win, i guess. next thing you know, on a map change, you see some of the attacking team leaving...and who could blame them? i know it's a game, and the object is to win...but not everyone who plays knows the objectives, or where to go (**i still get lost in the canyon map FCS!) but its no fun being overwhealmed. like we teach our kids, shouldn't the first goal of any game be to have fun, with winning comin in second? EDIT: OMG, it took me over 14 mins to type, its 1 am and i'm trying to type as quietly as possible! i agree with deadeye aswell, in any map, no matter what the numbers on the team, the only time i cross the wall is if i fall off the ledge, or disarming dyno, and then i don't leave it...i stay with the wall till i die; but thats just me.

Tom Riddle

Wild West Apprentice

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14th January 2004

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#5 14 years ago

Iggy you said what I think a lot of people want to. You say it with a lot of class and tact though. I have been in 3 such games in the last couple of weeks. I think it was just yesterday that it was 3 to 3 for a while then 3 to 2. The 2 were just killing the 3 of us. In the town map they would get the money then hang outside the horses and mow us down every time we dared to come onto the street. I don't believe they were being mean but damn I just wanted them to end our humiliation. It does get frustrating. I wanted to just quit but stuck it out til the end of the round. What really ticks me off is I can't blame my poor skills on the computer because Jaden uses the same one. Like once a month I get on a roll and kick some butt or accidentally have an opponent walk in front of me when I fire. I have tried the gat but am amazed that I can't hit anything with it. I am lucky I can't shoot my foot with it! Seriuosly though, I don't think your whining at all Iggy! You always seem to have a way of saying things that make sense! Jeff


Born again Angel

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21st March 2003

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#6 14 years ago

I have to agree with you there Iggy. It's takes the fun out of the game when a team thats too strong doesn't have a swap around. We've all been there and it does get frustrating especially when no one wants to swap and balance the teams. You get the oldies that do swap around but I found that some of the new players just don't want to, ahem, even the balance. So no your not moaning or being a sore looser.


I didn't make it!

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#7 14 years ago

Amen Iggi, I fully support and agree your post. Now, since the code of 1.6 is still under some construction, maybe it's an idea of adding a kind of skill-score point system in it, and when next map loads the players are shuffled depending on their skills. This have to be a server side setting, because if clans want to beat the crap out of eachother they don't want this shuffle system. I would make the skill-score something like: long distance kill: 5 point, medium: 7pt, short: 9pt, tossable(nades etc): 10pt, knifing: 15pt. Issued ammo/medic pack: 2pt, reviving: 10pt Objective taken: 15pt, saved: 5pt, returned (opposite team): 10pt, dynomite objective: 15pt Now if there is some kind of tracking on how much people move there should be a score for that as well, example if you have moved 500 meters 1pt, this case camping doesn't pay. What do you think?



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25th March 2003

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#8 14 years ago

iggy you full of wisdom ,,,and full of bullets too by the sounds of it hehehehe but id second that if so many hadnt already

do this mean you will stop pounding me with your volley :deal:

ok i removed my shuffle idea after seeing paolo's


I want to be like the Admins

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29th March 2004

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#9 14 years ago

I agree Iggy, the biggest problem is that many players who are joining the server have a look at the teams and then they are joining the stronger team even if they would win the current game anyway. Moreover - if a player of the of the loosing team is pissed off aleready and leaves the game so that that the weaker team counts less players too then nobody jumps over - no - one of the strong team goes spec and waits until another noob joins the loosing team - so that he can go back to his strong team! There are a lot of player who are acting this way - I dont want to say names here (you know yourself!) - I dont want whining - just want to say that you dont need to wonder if your strong team is alone on the server after a while.

Hope 1.6 includes a (score/kill-based) "shuffle teams" voting".

Biggus Dickus VIP Member

I would die without my life.

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19th January 2004

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#10 14 years ago
Rudi_alias_Rudione of the strong team goes spec and waits until another noob joins the loosing team - so that he can go back to his strong team![/QUOTE] I've seen it many, many times. That still occurs.
Rudi_alias_RudiI dont want to say names here (you know yourself!)
Of course. But be sure it's not a thing they want to discuss (I wonder why...) [QUOTE=Rudi_alias_Rudi]Hope 1.6 includes a (score/kill-based) "shuffle teams" voting".