Dressing up as other races 5 replies

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Admiral Donutz VIP Member

Wanna go Double Dutch?

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9th December 2003

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#1 4 years ago

Indeed, how is it still a thing?

Though I guess they mean it ironically and for them it IS a thing. I would disagree, dressing up as an other races*, nationality or any other group is quite alright aslong as the intentions aren't wrong. I don't see the harm in dressing up like a stereotype Irish, Dutchy, Chinese, African, Mexican, American, Canadian, white/black/latin/asian/whatever if it's all in good fun, with noble intentions or any other positive reason. Now if you dress up with the goal of trying to offend/ridicule people or to fuel hatred against a certain group, then it IS wrong.

Though you must be a pretty dumb idiot to people are not individuals but magically some kind of collective: *insert group* are such *characteristic*, they always *action*": Women are always such insecure bastards, checking up on their man like nazis to see if they aren't being cheated on, Mexicans are all such lazy dumbasses, getting drunk and sleeping all day long, white people are such oppressors, being loaded and occupying all the good jobs".... :Puzzled:

What IS offensive is if you apply some sort of stereotype (which may or not be accurate, may or may not be negative or positive) to every individual. I wouldn't see any harm in somebody dressing up as a stereotype Dutchy with clogs, a joint and a hooker but I would mind if people would say to me "Hey, you're Dutch, gotta joint for me, btw were are your clogs?".

The below images are perfectly alright in my book, aslong as you don't project that image as being factual for most Dutchies:

Spoiler: Show

OMG Asians dressing up like Dutchies, how offensive! Not... orgineel.jpg

You're avarage Dutch women? :rofl: frau_antje_der_spiegel.jpg

*Is there even such a thing as "race"? That label is far too subjective I'd say. One person groups some people under label A, an other under B etc. It's just silly.




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#2 4 years ago

Basically cosplaying, only you're not an anime girl squealing "kawaii" but a white, black, Asian etc person? Weird. Cosplay has the bonus of not seeming like something out of real life. Why would anyone dress up as another "race"? Waste of time, in my opinion. Race is indeed subjective, why do people still give a damn about that?




Rikupsoni

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#3 4 years ago

It is indeed bizarre, especially as wearing a siesta hat or something like that is for respecting the diversity different cultures have. It's fun that different cultures have different traditions, clothing etc.

I made a thread to the Pub not too long about something similar, as Katy Perry was accused of racism because she dressed as a geisha. She didn't do anything disrespectful. If she did, that could be racist, but simply a dress of some other culture is not.

Kids like to play Indians vs. Westerners for example, and there's nothing racist in it. They think Indians are cool. Would playing that in Europe be racist towards American cowboys too, I wonder?

My guess would be that they who think this is racist are mostly American college liberals who don't have what it takes to actually rationally think through things. They are just cluelessly parroting this shallow social activist "Western racist" thing to all topics. But they themselves have a very troubled relationship to different cultures if they think that's offensive and that there are a limited set of clothes what white Americans dress up with.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#4 4 years ago

Admiral Donutz;5740159 Indeed, how is it still a thing?

Though I guess they mean it ironically and for them it IS a thing. I would disagree, dressing up as an other races*, nationality or any other group is quite alright aslong as the intentions aren't wrong. I don't see the harm in dressing up like a stereotype Irish, Dutchy, Chinese, African, Mexican, American, Canadian, white/black/latin/asian/whatever if it's all in good fun, with noble intentions or any other positive reason. Now if you dress up with the goal of trying to offend/ridicule people or to fuel hatred against a certain group, then it IS wrong.

Though you must be a pretty dumb idiot to people are not individuals but magically some kind of collective: *insert group* are such *characteristic*, they always *action*": Women are always such insecure bastards, checking up on their man like nazis to see if they aren't being cheated on, Mexicans are all such lazy dumbasses, getting drunk and sleeping all day long, white people are such oppressors, being loaded and occupying all the good jobs".... :Puzzled:

What IS offensive is if you apply some sort of stereotype (which may or not be accurate, may or may not be negative or positive) to every individual. I wouldn't see any harm in somebody dressing up as a stereotype Dutchy with clogs, a joint and a hooker but I would mind if people would say to me "Hey, you're Dutch, gotta joint for me, btw were are your clogs?".

The below images are perfectly alright in my book, aslong as you don't project that image as being factual for most Dutchies:

Spoiler: Show

OMG Asians dressing up like Dutchies, how offensive! Not... orgineel.jpg

You're avarage Dutch women? :rofl: frau_antje_der_spiegel.jpg

*Is there even such a thing as "race"? That label is far too subjective I'd say. One person groups some people under label A, an other under B etc. It's just silly.

It is a matter of perspective. Racism or bias against foreigners is a big issue in the US. If the Dutch had been enslaved for a while and then treated as second-class citizens for a bit longer your ideas on pictures of stereotypical Dutchies might also be different.

I wouldn't say that it is always offensive, but some of the things shown in the video - like the drunk Mexican or the watermelon-eating gangster depiction of black people are pretty bad.




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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#5 4 years ago

Oh, some portrials can indeed be pretty bad. Such as those French officers that dressed up like stereotypical Africans. That in itself wouldn't be wrong but they posed with banana's, scratching etc. which makes it extremely demeaning.

French police officers investigated over 'blackface party' | World news | The Guardian In their defense: at a private party you may do much more then in public: running around naked, maing very bad jokes, dressing up as you wish but if it comes out you might be in trouble... and things such as this aren't really suggestin you look positively upon Africans... could very well be that they look down upon them though we do not know that, it could be that some simply have a very poor sense of humour... (subjective, I know).

Though the US seems to be a bit too sensitive to racial portrayals, especially if it's of black people. They probably would call our Sinterklaas festival as "racist":

Spoiler: Show
Sintbedrijf.jpg Sinterklaas (Saint Nick) from Spain (Turkey) with his jolly Morish (black) assistants (stereotypical Africans from a time most people never got to see an actual African)

Which ofcourse it isn't: a national holiday, of which Santa is based off, endorsing racism, slavery or such things? Nope. But ofcourse it could be found offensive by some (perceptions differ). Just as some Mexicans may find it offensive if somebody not-Mexican would wear a Sombrerro. Or some Dutcy might be offended if somebody dressed up as a stereotypical Dutchy. All a matter of perspective and context.

What is the most important question: what are the intentions of the person dressing up? Then may follow questions such as "Are people finding this offensive, and if so, would the actor find that a reason to tone down the portrayal or abandon it altogether?". But those things can only be done on a case to case base, depending on the sender (person who dresses up), the receiver (people seeing the portrayal) and context. You cannot please everybody, change something and an other number of people may not be amused over that... Pretty much like freedom of speech, being able to do and say as you please vs other people claiming to be negatively affected. Every case is unique.

In the clip shown the "gangta's with melons" was pretty bad. I don't get the watermelon though, some one explained it once but I forgot, I only remember a refernce to chicken and cheap food... Which once more shows context (location) matters aswell, I think in Europe less people (unless exposed to such material from the US) may not understand at all what's offensive about a (fake) black person with a watermelon or chickenproduct...

Just as an American may not understand what is offensive about a Dutchy asking a German for his bicycle back. :lulz: Though that too all would depend on context, in some cases it could be funny or approperiate (humour) in many... not. Getting exposed to the same jokes over and over is not funny. Though that applies to all kind of humour, then "a bit of fun" becomes bullying, ridiculing, demeaning etc.

Edit: Just as I fail to see how that Japanese All Nippon Air commercial is racist against white's... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/10586177/Japanese-airline-continue-to-air-racist-advert-despite-apology.html




Rikupsoni

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#6 4 years ago
MrFancypants;5740170 I wouldn't say that it is always offensive, but some of the things shown in the video - like the drunk Mexican or the watermelon-eating gangster depiction of black people are pretty bad.

Is there even a stereotype for drunk Mexicans? Alcohol consumption per capita in Mexico is 5.1 litres, in the US it is 8.2 litres. Besides, those kind of stereotypes can either be neutral (like that 'Finns are quiet'), or just for pejorative purposes (like that 'fat American go eat a burger and die from heart failure'). Not all are offensive or ill-meaning.

Usually the "dressing up" part is not the most racist thing, but making fun of physical appearances like painting your face black, using large fake lips and then carrying a watermelon. The watermelon thing is mostly offensive because it originates from genuine early 20th century racist caricatures.

But wearing a sombrero or dressing up as a geisha? A completely different thing. Common sense.