Emergence 10 replies

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Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#1 2 years ago

So if any of you are familiar with metaphysics you're no-doubt aware of some of the theories about what it means to exist, to be, to think.

Specifically in eastern philosophy largely is the belief in the separation of the body and mind, making one more of an abstract than something that affects nature and every physical event is merely our perception of it.  Essentially, "I think, therefore I am," or "I think, therefore it is," as the case may be.

For me however, I would take the more concrete approach of emergence.  Basically I think the human mind is merely the current result of many years of a constant upward slope starting from a simple form of life that evolved into a more complex one.  The senses are merely the electrical input and output, much like how a video card receives information and displays it to a screen or a hard drive stores information for later use.  Therefore our sense of self and mind is nothing more than carefully mapped out architecture of various electrical impulses that respond 1 or 0 and so on and so on.  This of course raises the question of determinism or free will.  If we are not but complex biological machines, responding to stimuli as we should, does this mean we are nothing but clever animals and all the abstract stuff is purely speculation?  Not necessarily.  Since none of us can really know what happens when you die, or whether or not we are ourselves simply programmed to think in the above manner, it raises a ton of questions, each more confusing, and interesting, than the last.

Thoughts?

What?...Why yes, I did have a lot of caffeine today.  Why do you ask?


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Lindale Forum Mod

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#2 2 years ago

Actually, I do know exactly what happens after death. Decomposition.


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Mr. Matt VIP Member

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#3 2 years ago

"Adrian Ţepeş"So if any of you are familiar with metaphysics you're no-doubt aware of some of the theories about what it means to exist, to be, to think.

Specifically in eastern philosophy largely is the belief in the separation of the body and mind, making one more of an abstract than something that affects nature and every physical event is merely our perception of it.  Essentially, "I think, therefore I am," or "I think, therefore it is," as the case may be.

For me however, I would take the more concrete approach of emergence.  Basically I think the human mind is merely the current result of many years of a constant upward slope starting from a simple form of life that evolved into a more complex one.  The senses are merely the electrical input and output, much like how a video card receives information and displays it to a screen or a hard drive stores information for later use.  Therefore our sense of self and mind is nothing more than carefully mapped out architecture of various electrical impulses that respond 1 or 0 and so on and so on.  This of course raises the question of determinism or free will.  If we are not but complex biological machines, responding to stimuli as we should, does this mean we are nothing but clever animals and all the abstract stuff is purely speculation?  Not necessarily.  Since none of us can really know what happens when you die, or whether or not we are ourselves simply programmed to think in the above manner, it raises a ton of questions, each more confusing, and interesting, than the last.

Thoughts?

What?...Why yes, I did have a lot of caffeine today.  Why do you ask?

I literally have no idea what you're asking us right now.




Serio VIP Member

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#4 2 years ago

4/20 was a month ago, Adrian.




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#5 2 years ago
"Mr. Matt" I literally have no idea what you're asking us right now.

Do you accept the premise that we are biological machines and that the separation of mind and body is not valid?


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#6 2 years ago

"Adrian Ţepeş"Thoughts?[/quote]

More on the argument than anything else I suppose. My own position on this is not particularly exciting.

[quote="Adrian Ţepeş"] For me however, I would take the more concrete approach of emergence.  Basically I think the human mind is merely the current result of many years of a constant upward slope starting from a simple form of life that evolved into a more complex one.  The senses are merely the electrical input and output, much like how a video card receives information and displays it to a screen or a hard drive stores information for later use.

Do you think hard drives are conscious; that information input-output systems in general suffice? If not, what difference do hard drives have to the human brain such that the latter has consciousness and the former not?




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#7 2 years ago

More an analogy using the hard drive and video card not as autonomous minds but as a specific part of the mind.   The computer at large is what I ultimately mean, but the computer is the definition of the sum of those parts, just as the mind is the sum of its parts.  

Obviously the computer has not quite achieved the level of sentience that we have, but it seems to be well on its way.  Actually, now that I think of it there's a lovely moment in TNG that touches on that very thing:


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#8 2 years ago

"Adrian Ţepeş"More an analogy using the hard drive and video card not as autonomous minds but as a specific part of the mind.   The computer at large is what I ultimately mean, but the computer is the definition of the sum of those parts, just as the mind is the sum of its parts.  

Obviously the computer has not quite achieved the level of sentience that we have, but it seems to be well on its way.

Okay. What makes one general computer; Data say; more sentient than another - the Analytical Engine, for example? What's the difference?




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#9 2 years ago

I failed to prescribe a clear definition of sentience, so I'll use the wikipedia definition:

"Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively."

In this case, a computer, in modern terms, is an extension of our subjective reality.  That is, everything we can experience our computers can experience on a microscopic level; i.e. the electrical.  Ultimately nothing separates us from that which we have created.  And that's kind of the point of that video; that our machinations (the computer) are living beings.  They could not exist without us (as far as we know).  The computer is a product of our efforts.  A computer that can infer data based on certain inputs that can create a series of algorithms to come to a certain conclusion of the input is not that much different than us.  I cannot provide a 100% clear difference other than we have the power of feelings.  Computers do not possess the power to release dopamine or serotonin.  Other than emotion and feeling, we do not differ that much.

Essentially, computers are the low-level version of humans.  


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#10 2 years ago

Test post to see if it makes Adrian's most recent appear




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