ESP (Extrasensorial Perception) 18 replies

  • 1
  • 2

Please wait...

>Omen<

Modern Warfare

50 XP

1st January 2005

0 Uploads

7,395 Posts

0 Threads

#11 8 years ago
Nemmerle;5641678Hell, I can finish my mother's sentences. There's no trick in that - people are just very very very predictable, if you know them well.

I think you missed my point. It's not that one can finish another's sentences, it's that rarely twins cannot. Most that claim they have ties as close as twins cannot actually prove it.

People that have spent years studying twins haven't just done it for the hell of it. There are definite differences in how they communicate with one another, vs just close friends or relatives.

It's as if the act of being born individually is a sense in itself. Take that sense away and another sense heightens. What was once one egg and becomes two embryos is like a mirror image later in life, and in much more than just the visual and physical.

That said, as much as I loved my bio mom before her and my only sister were taken in a car accident at age 8, I can't imagine spending so much time with them in my adult life that I would contend I can predict their thoughts as well as identical twins.

It's also more likely that when ident twins are doing this they are reading vs predicting each other's thoughts, big difference. With prediction there's always guesswork. Guessing right on how one will end their sentences, even most of the time, doesn't really prove anything.

I think really you read less into the fact that I used "finish each others sentences" as an example, than what I actually meant. It's just a common cliche that can convey a deeper connection than the typical. In this case, MUCH deeper.




Nemmerle Forum Moderator

Voice of joy and sunshine

299,066 XP

26th May 2003

0 Uploads

28,199 Posts

6 Threads

#12 8 years ago

People who've spent years studying how twins communicate with each other have yet to produce any significant body of evidence of anything that can't be explained more easily with far more mundane causes. Twins are often treated extremely alike, and they're expected - in the sense that there's approval for it - to behave alike. If you take two systems with the same underlying structures and give them the same sorts of inputs, they will respond in the same fashions.

The obvious test, for twin communication, is to vary the inputs in some way, and then ask the twins to determine each others behaviours as they would normally. But when you do that the phenomena disappears.

Most people do not have a large body of evidence on which to base their predictions about others. Most do not even make very close friends - they seem too worried to make themselves expend the potential relationship capital of having a contrary opinion on an important issue known. It's no wonder that they can't, often, do the same tricks.

It's also more likely that when ident twins are doing this they are reading vs predicting each other's thoughts, big difference. With prediction there's always guesswork. Guessing right on how one will end their sentences, even most of the time, doesn't really prove anything.

No, but from a third party perspective it is indistinguishable from the other. If I get the same evidence from two places - why ought I to assign one a mundane cause and the other a fantastical one?




>Omen<

Modern Warfare

50 XP

1st January 2005

0 Uploads

7,395 Posts

0 Threads

#13 8 years ago

The very fact that you acknowledge there's a "phenomena" there in the first place, after prior implying there's none, indicates there are more people trying to disprove ESP in twins than have actually proven there is none. Seems an obvious state of denial, out of theological or spiritual phobia, who knows, I've just seen it too many times to want to try and make sense of it.

That said, it's an endless argument, esp when those that claim there's a scientific reason for everything (despite them often not being able to come up with them) incessantly deny there's something more than scientific there, even though they can't explain why.

Besides, I know how you get when you can't prove you're right, and unfortunately you have the authority of banning when things get heated. Last time I had to explain that to you, you went a bit overboard I recall. So as the ABC Sharks say, I'm out. You're simply one I don't consider worth investing in long term arguments with.

Kinda sad some of us have to somewhat censor our opinions to avoid such things. Sometimes I get the feeling you like to egg me on so you can justify banning me. I'm not going let it get to that point this time, unless you can somehow consider what I've already said cause enough. Wouldn't surprise me. :rolleyes:

I'm more interested in discussing why Kilobyte (and others it appears) equates Sherlock Holmes with ESP than debate unproven science with you anyway. I've yet to see anyone logically explain that correlation.




Kilobyte

What does the Fox say?

69,060 XP

23rd November 2002

0 Uploads

6,468 Posts

0 Threads

#14 8 years ago

>Omen<;5641691The very fact that you acknowledge there's a "phenomena" there in the first place, after prior implying there's none, indicates there are more people trying to disprove ESP in twins than have actually proven there is none. Seems an obvious state of denial, out of theological or spiritual phobia, who knows, I've just seen it too many times to want to try and make sense of it.

I'm more interested in discussing why Kilobyte (and others it appears) equates Sherlock Holmes with ESP than debate unproven science with you anyway. I've yet to see anyone logically explain that correlation.

I'm not sure that I can do a better job than Nem at this point.

On the subject of twin ESP, they share an intimacy of each other's live's that most people do not experience. As many differences as twin's try to create, they are almost the exact same. They have the same life, the same experiences, the same DNA. They were exposed to the exact same stimuli at the exact same time, under the exact same circumstances. It goes to reason that they would have the same thoughts. If their thought patterns are so close, and they know each other well enough to know every single little thought difference, then they can accurately predict each other's thoughts.

It is hardly guesswork when you are the same person as the one your guessing about. Just ask yourself, what would you do in that situation, the first response is usually the correct one.

I don't equate Sherlock Holmes with ESP, I equate "ESP" with Sherlock Holmes, there is a difference. In short, I don't believe in ESP.




&gt;Omen&lt;

Modern Warfare

50 XP

1st January 2005

0 Uploads

7,395 Posts

0 Threads

#15 8 years ago
Kilobyte;5641702I don't equate Sherlock Holmes with ESP, I equate "ESP" with Sherlock Holmes, there is a difference.

It's the same either way you say it, they either equate or they don't. That's like two people looking into a mirror and one saying "I see myself correctly, you see me wrong", despite the image being the same either way.

As far as ident twins go, they start from the same egg, but they are still individuals. Your analogy somewhat tries to paint them as if they are not. I guess I've reached the proverbial brick wall with you as well, which is not surprising after you implied ESP has similarities to Sherlock Holmes, but wait, now you say they don't, despite equating the two.

Oh wait, but it's OK as long as you imply it the right direction. Excuse me but equality is equality. You don't go up to a person of another race and say, "You're equal to me, but I'm not equal to you." Well, maybe YOU do, but it's not rational phrasing just the same.

Well, one thing seems common with those whom try to insist there's a rational explanation for everything. Eventually they talk themselves into a corner, yet deny it. You may think what you're saying sounds rational, but it's obvious contradiction that takes you in circles. On that note I'll officially bow out and avoid the merry go round.




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

50 XP

14th July 2004

0 Uploads

15,103 Posts

0 Threads

#16 8 years ago

What Kilobyte Said.




Totes

Misanthrope

92,890 XP

7th January 2011

0 Uploads

8,664 Posts

0 Threads

#17 8 years ago

Watch the attitude, Omen.




Kilobyte

What does the Fox say?

69,060 XP

23rd November 2002

0 Uploads

6,468 Posts

0 Threads

#18 8 years ago

>Omen<;5641718As far as ident twins go, they start from the same egg, but they are still individuals. Your analogy somewhat tries to paint them as if they are not.[/quote] They are individuals, but individuals with so much in common that they are indistinguishable from one another.

When you look at one twin without the other, can you tell which one he/she is? Could one twin dress as the other and easily trick you?

[QUOTE=>Omen<;5641718]Oh wait, but it's OK as long as you imply it the right direction. Excuse me but equality is equality. You don't go up to a person of another race and say, "You're equal to me, but I'm not equal to you." Well, maybe YOU do, but it's not rational phrasing just the same.

Note the quotes around "ESP" in the second sentence. I don't equate ESP with Sherlock Holmes, I equate "ESP" with Sherlock Holmes. "ESP" being the existing claims of extra sensory crap, which do not provide proof of extra sensory abilities, and usually have a more logical explanation. I don't believe in ESP.

I am a skeptic, I base my knowledge on reality, on what I know. Just because I do not know how to create a combustion engine, or a smart phone, does not mean that they run on "Magic", or "Telepathy".

It is YOUR job to convince me that ESP is real. If you have hit a brick wall then YOU have failed. Standard scientific reasoning, you have a theory, you have to test, document, and prove your theory.




Silberio Advanced Member

Bourée

392,945 XP

9th October 2007

0 Uploads

37,226 Posts

5 Threads

#19 8 years ago

Guys, I was trying to make a nice, friendly discussion, not a I-shall-prove-you-wrong-thread, nor anything to bash each other ideas into others, but just to discuss what everyone thinks... All based with respect for each others opinions and without the aggresivity you're showing.


qjyUJrq.png



  • 1
  • 2