Ex-Navy S.E.A.L. Calls Military Parade 'Third-World B.S.' 18 replies

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Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#11 5 months ago
Posted by Adrian Ţepeş@1st Paragraph)


Pretty much everyone who is or was a servicemember realizes it.  In fact, there are several comics and forums addressing that very point.  And often it does insult them as well as civilians, but there are those who still get pumped up when they see these commercials and movies.  In the movie Jarhead (which is based on the actual experiences of Anthony Swofford) one scene shows Marines cheering during the village raid shown in Apocalypse Now , when such a movie is obviously not pro-war.  Also, you have to remember a lot of these ads are directed at 17 and 18-year-olds whose primary knowledge of the military and war comes from movies, TV, and video games.  

@2nd Paragraph)

It is lifestyle advertising, but the primary difference between the military (in this case the Marines) is one of their selling points: "Being a part of something greater than yourself."  And since there are units that do engage in some of the most hostile areas, there is a small bit of truth, and sometimes that's all you need.  Unfortunately, however, there are those who are that credulous.  They're not the only group that takes advantage of people's credulity.  Religious groups do it all the time, so a group that involves guns, explosives, and cool uniforms is all the more attractive.


@3rd Paragraph)

Actually...to a degree...yes.  I mean, that's not necessarily the majority of people, but when you see people wearing American flag shorts and hats, it's not that hard to imagine people getting off on that shit.

@4th Paragraph)

I should clarify: when I said good I meant effective, largely for the reasons I mentioned above, but the fact that American culture is the way it is does indeed play a big role in the celebrating the culture of rough, tough men.  Just look at the mottos of some of the famous units:

Rangers: "Rangers Lead the Way"

82nd Airborne: "Death from above"

Special Forces: "To Free the Oppressed."

Navy S.E.A.L.s: "The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday"

Marine Recon: "Swift, Silent, Deadly" 

And those kinds of ideas are especially attractive in a down-turned economy.

All well and good, but what does any of that have to do with your society as a whole? Society as a whole is not, in the main, part of the target demographic for that marketing. Most of the people in society - not just American society but most societies that don't have conscription - for whatever reason, looked at their options and decided they either couldn't be part of that sort of thing or wouldn't be part of that sort of thing. It's as far beyond having anything to do with them as whether or not a BMW makes you more confident has anything to do with them. They're never going to be soldiers and they're never going to be able to afford the car.

I mean think of it from the other perspective for a moment: Think how you'd take it if someone you randomly pick from the civilian population told you they felt they had a great deal in common with someone who "leads the way" in the fight "to free the oppressed" by "swiftly and silently" delivering "death from above".... 

Wouldn't you think that person had... you know... something more than just a little bit screwy upstairs?

I see how those sorts of statements might be a motivating factor for people to be soldiers, and for people who are soldiers to persist in that line of work. I don't see what it has to do with Joe the burger joint worker. Not unless Joe's life is so utterly empty of community that the small vicarious thrill he gets from war films is sufficient motivation that he'll identify with it rather than facing up to his own shit. In which case war becomes a sort of sporting event. Like, under that assumption, it wouldn't have to be this - this would just be something that was dominant in the media because the government spent a lot of money on the military industrial side of things - but it could as well be football. It would serve the same purpose if you stuck a bunch of pageantry and parades around it.


... Fuck. There's a troubling thought: Do people do that in America? Do you have favourite military units?




Last edited by Nemmerle 5 months ago

Adrian Ţepeş Forum Mod

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#12 5 months ago

Umm...probably the best answers to your questions are these:

What are the best excuses you have heard for people not joining the military?

Should Army and Marines (or components of) consolidate?

What are some of your favorite military phrases/sayings?

Every post on those sites was written by a confirmed servicemember.



"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Last edited by Adrian Ţepeş 5 months ago

Lindale Forum Mod

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#13 5 months ago
Posted by Nemmerle

I dunno, sounds an awful lot like communism... tonguez.gif

Indeed. Send people off to give their lives for their country, and leave them for dead when they return. Take away everything they owned and held dear, leave them homeless on the streets, and look the other way when they commit suicide because they have nowhere to go.

Instead of using taxpayer money on helping these people, use taxpayer money on throwing a giant parade to celebrate the fact that you have the world's largest military. Welcome to the United States of Donald Trump, where the only people who matter are the top 1%.


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Last edited by Lindale 5 months ago

Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#14 5 months ago
Posted by Lindale Indeed. Send people off to give their lives for their country, and leave them for dead when they return. Take away everything they owned and held dear, leave them homeless on the streets, and look the other way when they commit suicide because they have nowhere to go.

Instead of using taxpayer money on helping these people, use taxpayer money on throwing a giant parade to celebrate the fact that you have the world's largest military. Welcome to the United States of Donald Trump, where the only people who matter are the top 1%.

Well, a market-forces capitalist would reply that they accepted the deal: That the deal was X amount of money over Y years, and if you didn't like those terms you shouldn't have taken the job.

A socialist would probably reply that no-one deserves to go homeless, and their subsequent welfare should be a function of the welfare of the average person in your society when times are tough and not a privileged position based upon value of a job they used to have. (Because if you start talking about the value of their job, then really what you're saying is their wages and benefits package should be greater - and then you rapidly reduce to the position of the market capitalist.)




Lindale Forum Mod

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#15 5 months ago

What I am saying is that these people gave up everything for you. They risked their lives for you. They have earned the assistance we should be giving them. We at least owe them our thanks, if not more.


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Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#16 5 months ago
Posted by Lindale
What I am saying is that these people gave up everything for you. They risked their lives for you. They have earned the assistance we should be giving them. We at least owe them our thanks, if not more.

Maybe so, I'd note that we don't know these people and it is to some degree an act of arrogance to assume that they're going to get shot at because of us and not because they wanted a college fund, and thereafter cared about the people standing next to them, or any of a dozen other reasons they might do such a thing. 


Even putting that to one side, however, I'm inclined to ask: "So what?"

I mean look: Either everyone deserves to be treated kindly, because they're human and life can be complicated and going it by yourself can be hard, or no-one deserves to be treated kindly. Because, in the latter case, there's no deal one can strike in terms of goods and services that erases the fact that the only reason one is doing whatever one is doing for them is because of the goods or services one will get out of it. In the latter case, whatever causes the person to give over or do the thing one desires is, logically speaking, the point at which one should stop caring whether they live or die and in what manner they do so.

It speaks to me of a paucity of the soul that someone could potentially see a homeless person in the pissing rain and not give a shit until they learnt that the homeless person killed someone 'for them' when they were younger. That's not caring about people, it's not even really caring about the homeless person. That's caring about you.

No. If what one cared about was their service, rather than them as a human being, and one is thanking them because of their service, then the fact is they exchanged their service for money already and implying that they did it for your thanks, or even that they care for your thanks... what sort of idiots does one take these people for? One got what one wanted, that's an end to the transaction. If someone decides to sweeten the pot for whatever reason, great for them. But there's no logical economic reason for one to do so.

Thanks from a person who thinks in the latter manner, about service or favours or whatever, has always seemed to me very arrogant. I've had such thanks a few times in my life from people I was strategically useful to and I always perceived it as a game on their part - an attempt to make me feel good about them so that they'd do better in future negotiations, rather than just paying the price we'd agreed upon and which served our mutual interests.




Last edited by Nemmerle 5 months ago

Nittany Tiger Forum Mod

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#17 5 months ago
Posted by MrFancypants Must say I was a little surprised to see so much criticism for the idea as nationalism and militarism is probably more abundant in the US than in most other western democracies.

Doesn't surprise me at all that Trump would love something like this though.

With some of us, and unfortunately the loudest of us.

Many of us are hoping to God or whatever deity we believe in that we can either survive the next three years of the Trump circus or Democrats gain control of the legislative and impeach him.  However, I've lost a lot of confidence in my own government as most people on both sides appear corrupted either by power, money, or both.

The funny thing is, our military operates on a doctrine of selflessness and honor, yet it's something our politicians lack, especially Trump, who rivals Kim Jong Un with his narcissism and sociopathy.




DylandBass

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#18 3 months ago

I really enjoy parades military or otherwise, celebrating aspects of your nation is perfectly fine. The U.S. can't afford needless spending.

  I think I see his point though, a tyrannical government would use a military parade as a show of strength to keep the populace in line. The one upsmanship is just stupid too, the U.S. doesn't really need to one up France (an ally) with a parade.




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#19 3 months ago

I consider it akin to those men that think in order to prove their masculinity to others, they have to insert slurs at the end of every sentence while showing off their totally legit muscles. Sure, you might have some strength, but your vanity in showing it off in that manner just makes it hard to respect.




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