Freerange Fitness 18 replies

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Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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14th July 2004

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#1 6 years ago

Okay, so after thinking about the thread posted by Granyski in regards to 2012 Year Resolutions, more specifically those of which I seem to be failing on I've decided that I really do need to get into shape.

I've posted a few threads regarding fitness and exercise over in the Sports & Recreation section (the most recent, started in January 1st), suffice to say, I question how many people actually visit the Sports & Recreation section compared to the General Discussion alone. I know that I don't venture into the Sports & Recreation section unless I plan on starting a thread on fitness. I'm hoping that by posting this here, I'll get more feedback, thus:

  • [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]I ask that you Moderators please allow this thread to continue here.[/COLOR]
  • [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]Those that have offered advice and knowledge within the Sports & Recreation section not be offended if you're thinking your information isn't much good. It is, I'm just after more (of which you may again contribute too).[/COLOR]

Anyway, for those that aren't aware, I've been attending a gym for the best part of five years now. I started out at 106kg's (that's about 16.6 stone). Currently, I weigh in around about 88kg's (which is about 13.8 stone).

Now, you may be thinking that it's taken me five years to lose 18kg's; it hasn't. I've gone through phases, and I lost a fair bit straight away within the first 9 - 12 months. Since then, my diet, gym routine and fitness level has fluctuated. Sometimes I have that rhythm going, sometimes I give in to temptation and have a lazy month (or two). It's been this way over the past several years, and it's a habit I need to break.

Upon my gym induction, I was pretty much asked what I wanted to do (which was to lose weight) and thus a program was set up for me which seemed to do the job. It was recommended that I have my program updated every six - eight weeks, to adjust it accordingly. That initially worked, but then gym trainers come and went, and the collection of hypocrites they've got running the place now are hopeless.

Thus, I find myself on here, asking for advice from people that have actually got some idea (cause I swear half the gym trainers we've currently got have not long left school and haven't a clue about the real world or body work).

Anyway, question time. Please answer as best you can. If you don't know something, say so. Don't guess. :)

  1. If I were to have two different workouts, focusing on muscles, what is best recommended to split between? The main muscle groups are: Back, Chest, Shoulders, Arms (Biceps & Triceps), Abdominals, and Legs. If we had a 'workout one' and 'workout two' and the muscle groups had to be split between them, what would be the best split?
  2. Cardiovascular work and Weight work. Some people say it's fine to do both on the same day, others say they should be split up and not done on the same day. Thoughts? Opinions? Research?
  3. With weight training, there are generally two different ways of doing such. The first is lifting low reps with heavier weights, the second is to life high reps, but with lighter weights. What are the benefits and conditions of each?

Also, if it's not too much trouble, out of the weight groups listed above, could people possible suggest at least three different exercises for said weight group. If nothing else, it gives me some variation to play with. Currently, I've got:

  • Back ~ Pull Down (cable machine), Low Row (cable machine), Body Plank, Back Extension (floor exercise)
  • Chest ~ Barbell Press, Dumbbell Press, Chest Press (cable machine), Press/Push Ups
  • Shoulders ~ Dumbbell Press, Shoulder Press (cable machine), Lateral Raise
  • Arms (Biceps & Triceps) ~ Press/Push Ups, Barbell Curl, Dumbbell Curl
  • Abdominals ~ Abdominal Crunch (cable machine), Body Plank, Sit-Ups
  • Legs ~ Leg Press (cable machine), Leg Extension (cable machine), Leg Curl (cable machine), Lunges

I don't know where the Dead Lift would come in here, but I have tried them, and can't seem to get the technique right, so they're a no-go for me. YouTube links to examples would be greatly appreciated too.

And yeah, I know I'm asking a lot. [COLOR=Lime]Green[/COLOR] as Thanks? :)




Huffardo

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#2 6 years ago

I think you are going about this the wrong way. You have been lifting for longer than I have and made some very impressive changes, yet you still ask beginner questions. I may well be wrong, but I'm starting to think that you might consider the gym a place you go to because you are supposed to, to do exactly what someone else tells you to do, leave and then mostly forget about it until next time. Pretty much like a boring job. Am I completely wrong?

If that is the case, what you need to change, is your mindset. Step out of the wheel, start to learn and progress, and then don't stop. See it as a challenging and fun hobby, not a duty. Push yourself, or find someone to exercise with who does.

Aerilon;5608749 Thus, I find myself on here, asking for advice from people that have actually got some idea (cause I swear half the gym trainers we've currently got have not long left school and haven't a clue about the real world or body work).[/QUOTE] Do you have a serious gym in your area? Maybe it's time for some fresh air and a more motivating environment.

Aerilon;5608749Anyway, question time. Please answer as best you can. If you don't know something, say so. Don't guess. :)

  1. If I were to have two different workouts, focusing on muscles, what is best recommended to split between? The main muscle groups are: Back, Chest, Shoulders, Arms (Biceps & Triceps), Abdominals, and Legs. If we had a 'workout one' and 'workout two' and the muscle groups had to be split between them, what would be the best split?
  2. Cardiovascular work and Weight work. Some people say it's fine to do both on the same day, others say they should be split up and not done on the same day. Thoughts? Opinions? Research?
  3. With weight training, there are generally two different ways of doing such. The first is lifting low reps with heavier weights, the second is to life high reps, but with lighter weights. What are the benefits and conditions of each?

The good answer:

Go with what you like the best. There is more than one way to success and everyone is different.

The sort of answers you probably wanted:

  1. Workout 1: Legs, back, biceps. Workout 2: Chest, shoulders, triceps and abs. Motivation: Saves time and allows for more rest days for each muscle group.
  2. It's better to split them up, but it's not important at your level.
  3. The obvious benefits are that you get better at what you do. Lift high reps, and you'll be able to lift more reps, lift high weight, and you'll get better at lifting more weight. The most accepted theory is that is that very high reps increase your muscle endurance the most, reasonably high reps mainly increase your muscle mass the most and low reps increase your strength the most. Generally higher reps cause more pain, but have a lower chance of injury. This is however not simple, and I don't know if anyone could give you a good objective answer.

[QUOTE=Aerilon;5608749]Also, if it's not too much trouble, out of the weight groups listed above, could people possible suggest at least three different exercises for said weight group. If nothing else, it gives me some variation to play with. Currently, I've got:

  • Back ~ Pull Down (cable machine), Low Row (cable machine), Body Plank, Back Extension (floor exercise)
  • Chest ~ Barbell Press, Dumbbell Press, Chest Press (cable machine), Press/Push Ups
  • Shoulders ~ Dumbbell Press, Shoulder Press (cable machine), Lateral Raise
  • Arms (Biceps & Triceps) ~ Press/Push Ups, Barbell Curl, Dumbbell Curl
  • Abdominals ~ Abdominal Crunch (cable machine), Body Plank, Sit-Ups
  • Legs ~ Leg Press (cable machine), Leg Extension (cable machine), Leg Curl (cable machine), Lunges

Exercise & Muscle Directory It's not always correct, but they have quite extensive lists of exercises for each muscle group.

Some of my favourites:

Back: Deadlift =p

Pull up/chin up

Barbell row

Chest: Bench press

Dip

Dumbbell press

Shoulders: Military press

Dip

Face pull

Lateral raise

Biceps: Chin up/pull up

Barbell curl

Dumbbell curl

Concentration curl

Triceps: Dip

Lying triceps extension

Triceps pushdown

Narrow bench press

Abdominals: Dragon flag

Legs: Squat

Straight leg deadlift

Maybe that's enough for now. =p




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#3 6 years ago

Aerilon;5608749

  1. If I were to have two different workouts, focusing on muscles, what is best recommended to split between? The main muscle groups are: Back, Chest, Shoulders, Arms (Biceps & Triceps), Abdominals, and Legs. If we had a 'workout one' and 'workout two' and the muscle groups had to be split between them, what would be the best split?
  2. Cardiovascular work and Weight work. Some people say it's fine to do both on the same day, others say they should be split up and not done on the same day. Thoughts? Opinions? Research?
  3. With weight training, there are generally two different ways of doing such. The first is lifting low reps with heavier weights, the second is to life high reps, but with lighter weights. What are the benefits and conditions of each?

Not sure how helpful this is, but here's my opinion, and a few extra points.

1) I see two ways of doing this: A. Workout 1 - one area of different muscle groups, such as biceps/triceps and thighs. Workout 2 - the other area of the different muscle groups. B. Workout 1 - full focus on one area. Workout 2 - full focus on another area. I would think it's a matter of preference, and by trying different things, you'll find pretty quickly what works best. I would probably sway towards the former, as focusing on one part of the body such as the biceps does a bit to the other areas of the arm, so it would be quite tiresome to work the whole arm system at once.

2) I've found that a cardiovascular workout (bike riding) can be quite tiresome, so giving a day of rest between rides makes them more enjoyable. In between would be an ideal time to do some weights.

3) Do you want to lift heavy stuff or light stuff a lot of times? I've recently taken a liking to doing push-ups, and although I have built endurance, moving from only being able to do 30-40, to upwards of 50-60 at once, I haven't noticed a substantial ability to lift more weight. Maybe I just have to be patient, but from my experience and from what I've heard from others, the only way to substantially increase muscle strength is to lift heavier things, or to go as fast as you can. On the point of increasing muscle strength, I have a question. How often, and in what increment should you/I move to heavier weights? Been lifting 20-lb weights for a couple months now, but they are still fairly difficult to lift.

For me, exercise has always been a struggle to do regularly. What I have found to be enjoyable for myself is bike riding. Once I started, I found myself wanting to ride again, eager to see how far I could go. Unfortunately, the winter tends to throw me off... Just can't enjoy myself in the cold weather. Now, I'm finding myself wanting to go, but I have a heavy load of school, and plenty of other sources of stress to keep me from going. I really think, however, that the "not enough time" excuse just keeps me from finding time to go. If I really wanted to go, I'd find time for it somewhere... just like I've found time to make this post. With that said, I had better find time to start a regular routine once this stressful weekend is up, or I'll be awfully embarrassed to come back with nothing to say...

As to losing weight, I'm sure you know this already, but I'll reiterate anyways. I think diet is the largest factor. From the caloric perspective, you only will lose weight if you burn more calories than you consume. Like it or not, if you consume a lot of calories, you have to do a LOT of exercise to lose any weight. I'm not sure how many calories you burn on an average run or bike ride, but I think the number is quite low.

From the more naturalist perspective, regardless of exercise, a "perfect" diet would result in minimal body fat. A lot of food that's made its way into our diet in recent years has caused a lot of health problems. What comprises a "perfect" diet is a very controversial topics these days, with just about every "health expert" claiming their advertised diet is the way to go. It depends on how each person digests different foods, how much of any particular food is consumed, and how removed each food is from its plant form. My diet has been largely influenced by countless hours of research that dear ole' mom has done. Not even sure where to start, so I'll just point out some of the major aspect of our dietary philosophy: -More raw foods=better -More cooked foods=worse -Sugars are processed very quickly by the body; they typically result in fat build-up, and contribute to countless problems if left unchecked -What counts as sugar? High fructose corn syrup, refined sugar, cooked grains of just about any kind, 'whole' or 'white', sugar from fruit, especially sweeter fruits (though raw, fruits are processed much better than any other sugars) -Raw fruits and veggies=good -Raw forms of protein, such as seeds and nuts=better than cooked forms such as meat, as long as you can still find all the nutrients your body needs

Of coarse, such a diet is very extremist, and is essentially one step further than a vegan diet. In all honesty, the idea of getting my protein solely from seeds and nuts is somewhat appalling. But basically, it outlines my idea of a "perfect" diet. My suggestion though would be to get some good information on a healthy diet, and slowly work towards it. It is a heck of a lot easier to slowly replace bad foods with good foods, rewarding yourself with a treat at set time intervals (e.g. once a week or month) than it is to decide that, starting on a set day, you'll never eat anything unhealthy again. If your already doing this and seeing no change in your overall health, perhaps it's time to re-assess your approach.

Anyways, hope that helps. Good luck...




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#4 6 years ago

Just doing some quick sums here to try and work out how much energy you spend in your workout and I think either I've made a mistake somewhere or your exercise regime sucks.

Okay - grav potential energy in joules = mgh

Wherein:

m = mass in kg g = 9.81 h = around .5 meters

So: 45*9.81*0.5 = 220.725

Or, with one calorie, in the food sense (i.e. the large calorie - also known as the kcal), being around 4,185 joules, around 1/18th of a calorie.

Meaning you'd need to do 18 reps just to knock off one calorie. Meaning your 52 calorie Alpen bar - or whatever it was - would need 936 reps to spend the energy.

Of course that doesn't mean you'd actually have the energy available to you to do 936 reps immediately after eating the thing - but. You see my concern here? Something about reality's looking iffy.

Anyone got any corrections/alternatives?

Edit: I suppose the human body might just be incredibly inefficient in converting the energy it gets into work? :/ It's hard to believe it would be that inefficient though.




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#5 6 years ago
Nemmerle;5608820 Edit: I suppose the human body might just be incredibly inefficient in converting the energy it gets into work?

Perhaps... Though people tend to burn relatively few calories when working out. Just some quick Googling shows that jogging for an hour burns ~700 calories. Dramatically fewer in that time if doing less strenuous work.




Pethegreat VIP Member

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#6 6 years ago
Anyone got any corrections/alternatives?

In the long run it takes more energy to maintain muscle mass than it does to maintain fat. You also have to remember that lifting gets your heart rate up which also burns calories. You can loose weight while lifting weights if you keep calories out > calories in.

I would say cardio works much better for burning calories in the short term which is what people care about most. It easier to keep calories out > calories in with cardio because it burns more calories than weight lifting. An hour of cycling at 15-16 mph burns 800 cal/hr.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#7 6 years ago

Mmmhmm.

Wolfram Alpha seems to list calories

bread calories - Wolfram|Alpha

So if you had a scale you could work out your likely inputs without needing to invest in a calorie book.




Pethegreat VIP Member

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#8 6 years ago
So if you had a scale you could work out your likely inputs without needing to invest in a calorie book.

You can always read the nutrition info on the back which lists the serving size. I don't see a scale as vital to counting calories. With ground hamburgers for example, you know the total mass and you know how many hamburgers you made. You therefore know the approximate mass of each burger and thus can figure out the calories you are taking in.

A simple excel spreadsheet is more that enough to keep track of your caloric intake.




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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#9 6 years ago

Huffardo;5608783I may well be wrong, but I'm starting to think that you might consider the gym a place you go to because you are supposed to, to do exactly what someone else tells you to do, leave and then mostly forget about it until next time. Pretty much like a boring job. Am I completely wrong?[/quote]You aren't completely wrong, no. To a degree, you're spot on. We're given 'programs' (by our choice) which we aim to complete. I have phased through months where I haven't had a program, and have just done what I've wanted, or what I felt was needed, but (as much as I enjoyed it) I didn't seem to actually ever get anywhere with it, thus I usually tend to try and get a program given to me so I've got something to follow.

Huffardo;5608783If that is the case, what you need to change, is your mindset. Step out of the wheel, start to learn and progress, and then don't stop. See it as a challenging and fun hobby, not a duty. Push yourself, or find someone to exercise with who does.[/quote]This is probably the thing, it's my mindset. It's the days I go down the gym and think to myself I can't be bothered with this today ~ those days, a lot less effort goes in to whatever it is that I'm aiming for.

Huffardo;5608783Do you have a serious gym in your area? Maybe it's time for some fresh air and a more motivating environment.[/quote]There are three gyms within three miles of me, the others are 15+ miles away.

Out of the three, the one I attend is the largest and best equipped (machine and weight wise).

Thank You for the other information and the videos (yes, even the one of the Dead Lift). :rolleyes:

The Soleutator;5608810Not sure how helpful this is, but here's my opinion, and a few extra points.[/quote]Everything helps. :)

The Soleutator;56088101) I see two ways of doing this: A. Workout 1 - one area of different muscle groups, such as biceps/triceps and thighs. Workout 2 - the other area of the different muscle groups. B. Workout 1 - full focus on one area. Workout 2 - full focus on another area[/quote]Just to clear up what I think I'm reading from you, you're suggesting I work on different muscles per different day? Thus say...

Monday ~ Arms Tuesday ~ Back Wednesday ~ Chest

ect ect?

The Soleutator;56088103) Do you want to lift heavy stuff or light stuff a lot of times?

Honestly, I'm not fussed about this. I have switched in the past between doing lower reps of heavier weights, and higher reps of lower weights. Both have left me feeling good about the session on some occasions, just as both have left me feeling like I've hardly done anything on occasions.

[QUOTE=The Soleutator;5608810]How often, and in what increment should you/I move to heavier weights? Been lifting 20-lb weights for a couple months now, but they are still fairly difficult to lift.

I try to aim to increase weight every 4 - 6 weeks if I can. If I'm doing a weight that I'm struggling with(such as the bench press) then I stick at it until I can move on. I'm currently lifting 50kg's on that (on a really good day I can push myself to hit 55kg's). I started back in November (after a weight hiatus) on 30kg's.

[QUOTE=The Soleutator;5608810]What I have found to be enjoyable for myself is bike riding. Once I started, I found myself wanting to ride again, eager to see how far I could go.

I enjoy riding too, I've both a Mountain and (more recently toward the latter stages of last year) a Road/Racing bike which I made full use of as often as I could. As you've stated though, the weather doesn't help when it comes to cycling. You want it to be fairly nice out, or at the very least, dry.

[QUOTE=The Soleutator;5608810]I think diet is the largest factor. From the caloric perspective, you only will lose weight if you burn more calories than you consume. Like it or not, if you consume a lot of calories, you have to do a LOT of exercise to lose any weight.

Yeah, I know this. :) I eat far less now than I did four - five years ago.

[QUOTE=The Soleutator;5608810]Good luck...

Ta, and Thanks. :)

[QUOTE=Pethegreat;5608953]I would say cardio works much better for burning calories in the short term which is what people care about most. It easier to keep calories out > calories in with cardio because it burns more calories than weight lifting. An hour of cycling at 15-16 mph burns 800 cal/hr.

Cardiovascular exercise is only going to keep them calories off though. I need to alternate between the two, not only to change my figure, but also to build up my endurance and stamina.

Thanking you all for whatever input or comments you've put in too. It will help.




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#10 6 years ago

Aerilon;5609274 Just to clear up what I think I'm reading from you, you're suggesting I work on different muscles per different day? Thus say...

Monday ~ Arms Tuesday ~ Back Wednesday ~ Chest

ect ect?

That would be one way of doing it. I was quite unclear as to what I would prefer doing, so let me try it again:

The idea would be to spread the workout to different muscle groups, but not to work the same muscles two days in a row. An example would be something like: Day 1 - push-ups/bench press, upper legs Day 2 - biceps/triceps, lower legs, stomach

I'm a bit bad at all the muscle group names, so I couldn't name exact groups, nor do I want to be that specific, but you get the idea. Whatever the case, I find it much easier to alternate exercises each day, then once I've rested a particular muscle for a day, I come back much more able to repeat that exercise.

As an example of a less than ideal situation, at one point I was riding my bike ~2 miles daily, mostly uphill to work. Monday it was easy enough, but come Tuesday or Wednesday, I was quite worn out. I noticed a lot of improvement over time doing this, but my only motivation was getting to work. Give it a day in-between, and it suddenly gets much more enjoyable.




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