Hiring procedures 19 replies

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Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#1 6 years ago

I found it very very interesting, looking at a hiring form recently, that it doesn't have anywhere to put your qualifications.

And it's something I've been wondering a lot lately: given how easy it is to test people online, does it make any sense to hire based upon exam results?

Certainly for things like maths and English you can have the computer crunch out a rough score based upon whether they answered the questions correctly, how readable their prose is.

If you want to test problem solving you can have a database of puzzles and present problems from that.

And then anyone who scores well you invite along to your interviews, knowing ahead of time what you're likely to be getting.

So why would anyone actually bother looking at your A Levels or your GCSEs or whatever? When more results oriented data is so easy to get....




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#2 6 years ago

There are companies doing exactly that. You still give them your traditional CV and everything, but in order to get there you have to pass some tests on an online platform.

It doesn't work too well if you ask me. People can just create a fake account on the portal, do the test once and then practice the type of questions. If you have difficult questions it just becomes an exercise in who is able to spend most time on prepraring for the tests. The guys you really want to hire will probably prefer to spend their time applying for more companies.

It might work well for jobs with low required qualifications or many appliacnts, as a measure to sort out the lowest 10% with a bunch of easy questions.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#3 6 years ago

Isn't that explicitly what the education system teaches people to do anyway? The only difference here would be that there's presumably a higher level of honesty from people who don't have the creativity to think of things in that way.... (Not that having that level of creativity as a base-line is a bad thing anyway.)

If people can just practice the type of questions, maybe you should be asking the sort of questions they'd have to answer in their job? And then if they 'cheat' well, you hope they'll cheat in the workplace too....




Snow_Flake

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#4 6 years ago

I have been searching for a permanent job for a long time now I have only come across one where I was asked to complete any tests, I actually went into the office building to do the test on one of the computer they provided. Perhaps it could be the jobs I am actually applying for don't usually need to do any tests.

Also, almost every job I have ever looked at nowadays requires experience in that field regardless of qualifications, I have friends who have left/are in university now who are regretting going because they can't find a job regardless of great qualifications and of course the debt is piling up.




MoreGun89

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#5 6 years ago

Yeah I agree after hunting for something even for summer. Personality tests always kill me, I always have great people skills and problem-solving, but there's no way to explain your answer if it is odd. "When you start a new project do you think about everything that could go wrong?" I answered it with strongly agree, because I do. I just wish I could elaborate on that saying that it's so that I have an idea of what to expect and rather than scrambling for answers last minute I can just mitigate the problem and work through it quickly with no "oh shit" feeling :P

While I understand most companies have far too many applicants to interview individually or read through mountains of resumes, it's still quite a frustrating process.


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Pethegreat VIP Member

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#6 6 years ago

The personality tests are bullshit, but if you know what the company wants in terms of personality you can beat their system. I do feel that skill tests for programs like Microsoft office is fair if you are going to be using the program on the job. I got called by a temp agency last week about a potential job for me. I went in they made me take skill tests on most of the office suite. I did fine, but what they considered passing was laughable. I got an %80 on the outlook exam even though I have never touched outlook.

The biggest problem I have with hiring procedures are the people in HR who look over resumes. Another issue are the ridiculous requirements for some of the jobs. An entry level job does not require 3-5 years of industry experience. When you combine these 2 you get a system that overlooks people who are trying to enter the workforce and become productive members of society. A large group of young unemployed people who are getting pissed off is not good for any country.

I have been looking for a job in my field of study, engineering, for close to a year now. I tried to line up a job before graduation, but that fell though. The temp job is the only luck I have had since November. The agency said that the employer wants someone with 2 years experience, but they are going to try to get me the job. They get a cut of what I get paid for placing me so they have an incentive to go to bat for me.




Antilles VIP Member

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#7 6 years ago

I personally think they are utter bull.

A test cannot tell a company how someone will react when actually faced with customers. It's very easy just to put the answer the company wants, pass it, get the job, then act completely different.

They also account in no way for experience gained from another job.

For example, I was looking for a job with Loblaws Canada, they made me take a Customer Service exam before my interview. I took the exam, went on to the interview. The guy who interviewed me said I was awesome, had everything they wanted in an employee, all that jazz.

Then the test results came back, and they phoned me and told me I had failed their Customer Service Exam thingy. Which, I found to be utter Bull. I had been working in customer service for 4 years by the time. So, I didnt get the job.

Hell, when I phoned my old boss to ask if they had called for a reference, and I told him what they said, he outright laughed, he couldnt believe it.

So ya, they are bullshit, and shouldnt be used.


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MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#8 6 years ago

Nemmerle;5624645Isn't that explicitly what the education system teaches people to do anyway? The only difference here would be that there's presumably a higher level of honesty from people who don't have the creativity to think of things in that way.... (Not that having that level of creativity as a base-line is a bad thing anyway.)

If people can just practice the type of questions, maybe you should be asking the sort of questions they'd have to answer in their job? And then if they 'cheat' well, you hope they'll cheat in the workplace too....[/QUOTE] If your education system does the same then you might as well skip online tests and look at applicant's credentials. It is unlikely that your online test will cover as much as the tests you had to go through during university or school. And if you make it cover as much people won't apply.

But, like I said, it probably depends what kind of job you are talking about.

[QUOTE=MoreGun89;5624667]Yeah I agree after hunting for something even for summer. Personality tests always kill me, I always have great people skills and problem-solving, but there's no way to explain your answer if it is odd. "When you start a new project do you think about everything that could go wrong?" I answered it with strongly agree, because I do. I just wish I could elaborate on that saying that it's so that I have an idea of what to expect and rather than scrambling for answers last minute I can just mitigate the problem and work through it quickly with no "oh shit" feeling :P

While I understand most companies have far too many applicants to interview individually or read through mountains of resumes, it's still quite a frustrating process.

There are books which describe common interview questions. Practicing that stuff might help, although I personally dislike giving rehearsed answers as it feels dishonest. But it might help to see the purpose of various questions.




Flash525

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#9 6 years ago

Nemmerle;5624619I found it very very interesting, looking at a hiring form recently, that it doesn't have anywhere to put your qualifications.[/quote]I don't believe companies should need to be looking at qualifications, at least the basic ones of which are obtained during your school time.

[QUOTE=Nemmerle;5624619]And it's something I've been wondering a lot lately: given how easy it is to test people online, does it make any sense to hire based upon exam results?

School Exam Results? No. College and University Gradings, I'd argue yes.

In my opinion, schools should focus on the basics, and in the modern day world, that is only three topics; English (both written and spoken), Mathematics, and a topic that focuses on Technology; specifically computers. Nine out of Ten companies in the modern world run by means of a Computer. I suppose there could be a fourth and fifth course that would focus on the rights and wrongs of a person and such, in addition to sport, but that's a discussion for another time.

Schools should push these four basic topics though, and students should excel. Other such subjects like History, Science, Art, Drama. If you're wanting to take a route down one of those paths, you wait until you finish school, and work toward such a goal come college.

When applying for a job the two main aims for any company is going to be your ability to speak, spell and do (at the very least) basic mathematics. If you can do this then great, then you get given other tests to prove you're right for the job. If you can't manage these simple traits, then you should never have left school.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#10 6 years ago

MrFancypants;5624702If your education system does the same then you might as well skip online tests and look at applicant's credentials. It is unlikely that your online test will cover as much as the tests you had to go through during university or school. And if you make it cover as much people won't apply.

But, like I said, it probably depends what kind of job you are talking about.[/QUOTE]

The mechanism of action is the same. However, I would have thought, tests taken through the internet would have several advantages: They're more recent and can draw from a far wider potential question pool, (when you go into an exam you know you'll be answering a question on something you studied in the last few months, which makes cramming more practical.) And they can be directly related to the sort of problems that the person would encounter on the job - whereas the sort of subjects people study at school and university often seem, at best, obscurely related to any form of practical problem solving. I mean it's better than nothing but....

Aerilon;5624792School Exam Results? No. College and University Gradings, I'd argue yes.[/QUOTE]

Go on then. =p

Aerilon;5624792In my opinion, schools should focus on the basics, and in the modern day world, that is only three topics; English (both written and spoken), Mathematics, and a topic that focuses on Technology; specifically computers. [/QUOTE]

In short you'd raise a bunch of scientifically-illiterate, culturally retarded linear thinkers. People with absolutely no practical problem solving ability, access to the creative industries that compose the most stable part of the economy, or a wide base of experiences on which to base their solutions.

[QUOTE=Aerilon;5624792]Nine out of Ten companies in the modern world run by means of a Computer.

Nine out of ten employees do not need to be programmers. That's sort of the point of having computers.

[QUOTE=Aerilon;5624792]I suppose there could be a fourth and fifth course that would focus on the rights and wrongs of a person and such, in addition to sport, but that's a discussion for another time.

Schools should push these four basic topics though, and students should excel. Other such subjects like History, Science, Art, Drama. If you're wanting to take a route down one of those paths, you wait until you finish school, and work toward such a goal come college.

You've pushed through four subjects that are, taken to such an extreme, essentially useless to the vast majority of what people do. At the expense of all else. And you think that people are going to go to college to study something they've never done or had any experience with?

[QUOTE=Aerilon;5624792]When applying for a job the two main aims for any company is going to be your ability to speak, spell and do (at the very least) basic mathematics.

Horror stories of the occasional retard aside, I've only ever met one person who can't do those things. What are you justifying sacrificing all the rest of the curriculum on?

It seems to me the point of school should be to provide a good set of basic skills. Which can be done in a few hours a week. And beyond that its point ought to be to provide a wide base of experience and familiarity with different ideas. It shouldn't matter too much whether you can remember specific dates or formula, or whether you know exactly what alliteration is. You can go and look up what you don't precisely remember when you're out in the real world - as long as you have enough experience with it to know it's there.

We shouldn't be getting people to specialise at a young age, or force them massively into depth in any particular subject if they don't want to. We've got all this information technology out here - there's no need to teach using such ancient memorisation/regurgitation methodology anymore....




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