One of the happiest day in my life. Swedish Armed Forces here I come 99 replies

Please wait...

Gauntlet

Dead rather than Red!

50 XP

25th April 2004

0 Uploads

4,346 Posts

0 Threads

#91 13 years ago

Mast3rofPuppetsEver heard of EU Battle Groups? Each Battle Group will consist of 1500 soldiers. Sweden will be the framework nation of the Nordic Battle Group and will contribute with 1100 soldiers. Finland, Estonia and Norway will contribute with the rest 400. If I enjoy the life in the military I will probably search to the Nordic Battle Group.[/quote]Why would Norway contribute to an EU Battle Group...? :confused:

Norway is gay enough to not be a member of the EU, so how come we provide forces to a military battlegroup...?

EDIT: Never mind: [QUOTE=Wikipedia]Sweden and Finland announced the creation of a joint Nordic battle group. To make up the required 1500 number, they also urged Norway to contribute in the battle group. Even though Norway is not an EU member, it indicated interest in partaking in such defense projects. Recently however Norwegian legal experts have called into question the constitutionality of such participation.

Makes me wonder...where the hell is Denmark?!




m249

.

50 XP

24th October 2005

0 Uploads

277 Posts

0 Threads

#92 13 years ago

sweden has some nice weapons!




Mast3rofPuppets VIP Member

08'aIgnorance is not an excuse

50 XP

28th November 2003

0 Uploads

8,198 Posts

0 Threads

#93 13 years ago
Gauntlet Makes me wonder...where the hell is Denmark?!

That's a damn good question. I have no idea.




Crazy Wolf VIP Member

Snipes With Artillery

277,420 XP

22nd March 2005

0 Uploads

27,192 Posts

0 Threads

#94 13 years ago

Damn Danes, probably hiding on the other side of that strait saying, "Tell you what. You blow everything up, and we come in and rebuild everything with Legos!"




Huffardo

Arrrr!

48,770 XP

29th November 2003

0 Uploads

4,632 Posts

0 Threads

#95 13 years ago

WirheAh, yes; those "lazy bums that do not want to perform their responsibility to their fair and noble country." Have you considered that maybe people do NOT want to do it due of other reasons than laziness? :rolleyes:[/quote] What other reasons, really? You can't claim everyone is too afraid of guns or that kind of nonsense, and pure egoism isn't a good reason if you ask me.

Those who have serious problems with killing attacking enemies, that would kill both you and and random civilians, are free to choose civilian service. The length is just a way of making sure that only they who are really afraid and convinced choose it. It doesn't work though, perhaps because it is too easy compared to the service (of course there are excetions, like military journalists, bike mechanics etc), but that isn't a major problem yet.

WirheYou must be kidding me: MIL is the official site of Finland's military, so it's sure as hell that they are defending only their own point of view there. On the other hand, www.aseistakieltaytyjaliitto.fi and www.wri-irg.org (War Resisters International) report truthfully about the abuse several military-aligned personel are performing in certain countries (Finland included). Even Amnesty International has condemned the current practise in Finland (conserning the treatment of those that refuse to go to military altogether). Not only that, they have a record of 23 people currently held in a finnish prison due of their opinion.[/quote] It's their official site, but they look pretty ok to me. Of course they are a bit biased, but that doesn't make the survey nonexistent, does it?

And that list Amnesty International keeps of Finnish prisoners of opinion is the main reason I can't trust them. It's not like they would be tortured or anything, just about six months in prison. They were given options, but wanted to prison, so what's their problem, prison is much better than doing the military service in average.

WirheHell no it isn't. You know what they say: "after army you can sleep two weeks straight, but after that it's back to the routine." It happened in my case and I do not doubt that it happens with everyone else. Again, this is the same stuff they try to feed to you to make you believe into their false cause. Military does NOT make you a better person; it makes you a skilled tool when the war arises. On top of that, whole age-classes lose 180-365 days for nothing when they could be working and thus donating taxes to the government. We are talking about 20,000 people every year and that's a lot of lost time.[/quote] I think it would be better to start a new thread about conscription, or I'll derail this thread completely. :lookaround:

WirheI am; either Britain or Australia, once I get the money together. Of course I can ask for protection, but in today's world it does not necessarily help. Countries have pacts (especially in EU) and many juries consider this kind of cases "routine." Meaning: the officials can simply declare an international arrest-warrant and many countries would follow it past their own court. As to the routine... Well, 23 cases, all have lead to jail; juries can hardly make an exception from that, can they? It's an automated process nowdays.[/quote] Well, I suppose there are some reasons why it's routine then. [QUOTE=Wirhe]As to the last part... I have a better option: how 'bout an armed resistance movement to defend you against -not the invading country- but the hostile military of your own?

I think that would be rather stupid, and merely suggesting that makes you look quite criminal actually. A civil war that you only could loose, making a lot of people have to kill your kind and have nightmares about it, all whilst you attackers would kill civilians because those are the only ones you'd have a chance against. Remember that those who have real reasons not to go to the military actually are against killing in general, so they would be against you too. :uhm:

[QUOTE=Wirhe]Maybe it's because they are 'personal' interests instead of a blind loyalty towards something obscure and changing? US is "defending" the well-being of its citizens in Afghanistan and Iraq -and it has done the same in several other countries too. All outside their borders.

There are many differences between the nordic countries and the US. One being the US does NOT have a conscription army. One of the major pros for conscription is that most of the soldiers just would refuse to invade foreign countries, nothing even Bush could do anything about if he was president here. You should know that the Finnish Defence Forces don't have the material required to attack far away, it's meant for purely defending, and attacking whilst doing it in a small scale of course.

[QUOTE=Wirhe]Opinions, opinions... Not facts. Okay, Finland is not a top-priority target for terrorists, but that is not a reason why there shouldn't be some kind of military cooperation. On the contrary: if EU created a special strike-force to defend all EU-nations, it would help many countries to decrease their military budgets and Finland could, perhaps, finally say goodbye to the conscript service. These funds could be spend on public healthcare, economy, and the general well-being of all their citizens. But again the conservatives resist with the same old "everyone has to defend his country, end of discussion" -reasons. :rolleyes:.

I have discussed this several times before, and it usually is impossible to come to any solution with someone who thinks military or civilian service is a waste of their time. Nobody usually changes their views on this, and if you are really egoistic there is nothing that can stop you in a democratic country.

I don't have anything against EU troops as long as they only accept voluntary people who get paid decently, and don't grow big enough to threathen peace. They are not an alternative to conscription though, just an addition.

And to your knowledge, I'm not conservative in general, mainly about conscription. And many conservatives are pro-NATO too, wanting to kill conscripts for the well-being of the great American leaders. :(

Communism rules, but it could need conscription too. Who knows if the reds could have won with proper training and discipline? Now they would have that, problem is that almost everyone has it good enough today not to want to risk their lives in vain against a powerful capitalistic enemy. Sure those who find their personal interests to be the most important won't attack the rest of the country either, making themselves die or get wounded, imprisoned for a long time, or just waste their valuable time if they somehow would get out of it without consequences. :)

[QUOTE=Crazy Wolf]Damn Danes, probably hiding on the other side of that strait saying, "Tell you what. You blow everything up, and we come in and rebuild everything with Legos!"

:lol:




Gauntlet

Dead rather than Red!

50 XP

25th April 2004

0 Uploads

4,346 Posts

0 Threads

#96 13 years ago
Crazy WolfDamn Danes, probably hiding on the other side of that strait saying, "Tell you what. You blow everything up, and we come in and rebuild everything with Legos!"

haha :lol:

Sneaky danes...:eek:




Guest

I didn't make it!

0 XP

 
#97 13 years ago
I have discussed this several times before, and it usually is impossible to come to any solution with someone who thinks military or civilian service is a waste of their time. Nobody usually changes their views on this, and if you are really egoistic there is nothing that can stop you in a democratic country.

Too true, too true... And that is the problem behind the attitudes today. I could critisize you all day and hand all the arguments on a silver plate and still you wouldn't budge. Like said previously, and several times before that; "everyone has to do their responsibility towards their fair and noble country, end of discussion." :rolleyes: That's why all patriots should be thrown the hell out from the parlament.

@ Mast3rofPuppets

It's a good start, but there definitely needs to be more of it. 1500 soldiers just isn't enough to convince anyone, should the rest be disbanded. There have been mentions about these "global EU-forces" that could rival with NATO, but they have not become to fruitition yet.




[+Glasius+] VIP Member

THE snowman

50 XP

23rd January 2000

0 Uploads

1,670 Posts

0 Threads

#98 13 years ago

Good luck Master, firsttime service is a real experience :p Dont eat the chicken raw!!!!




Mast3rofPuppets VIP Member

08'aIgnorance is not an excuse

50 XP

28th November 2003

0 Uploads

8,198 Posts

0 Threads

#99 13 years ago

Wirhe @ Mast3rofPuppets

It's a good start, but there definitely needs to be more of it. 1500 soldiers just isn't enough to convince anyone, should the rest be disbanded. There have been mentions about these "global EU-forces" that could rival with NATO, but they have not become to fruitition yet.

Well there will be 15 Battle Groups (22,500 soldiers ready to deploy within 10 days). And the ERRF will have around 60,000 soldiers available.

Keep in mind that those both will mostly be used for peace enforcing.




Crazy Wolf VIP Member

Snipes With Artillery

277,420 XP

22nd March 2005

0 Uploads

27,192 Posts

0 Threads

#100 13 years ago

Peace enforcing seems to generally involve people with guns.