Satnavs and Information 11 replies

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Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

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#1 2 years ago

Today I bought a dedicated satnav. This was done grudgingly considering my phone has an always up to date map wherever I go with live traffic and all the bells and whistles one could want.

With the penalties for using a mobile whilst driving going up to six points and a £1,000 fine + the chance of a six month driving ban, it's better not to have the appearance of using one whether or not using one as a satnav is legal, (which I found alarmingly difficult to check on when I tried - the .gov website doesn't link back to the actual law definition or any of the surrounding caselaw. Making it just something whoever wrote that page on the website thought at the time - may be good info, may be crummy, in any case doesn't give much to go on for whether using a mobile as a satnav renders it one for the purposes of the relevant legislation.)

It did bring to mind information though, and how screwed we are with it.

There are, it seems to me, two big challenges with information today: Lack of networking; the ability to cross reference information and consequently make it more meaningful with respect to any given issue; and lack of openness. Any given piece of information, no matter how important, is crippled in isolation. We have some systems that enable this, but they are not especially powerful.

James Madison wrote: "A popular Government without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy, or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."

That is not just, as commonly interpreted, about having a free press. It's about being able to do something with the information to render it relevant.

We wander through a world of increasing complexity, one we barely understand, grasping at occasional news reports, occasional isolated procedures and laws, the public-facing sides of certain studies and testaments. There are more powerful systems, many of them proprietary, but our lack of common power in this regard is a major mistake and I suspect explains many ills of the world.

In intention people are generally compassionate. Few of us wish for others pain over their happiness and when we do so it is generally for a specific person's pain, rather than a general hatred of humanity. We would not have lasted as a species if it were otherwise.

I do not say these are the only challenges, nor that they are the most important. Simply that they are significant. (And potentially had me invest in an unnecessary satnav ¬_¬ )




Lindale Forum Mod

Mister Angry Rules Guy

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#2 2 years ago

At this point, I need to ask the model and year of your car.

If you have a recent car, you can hook your phone into your car via Blue Tooth.

If you have an older car, I suggest you get a dashboard mount for your phone. You would need to do the same for your GPS unit anyway.

Arkon-Windshield-iPhone-stand-for-car.jpg


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Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

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#3 2 years ago

The point isn't so much that I can't mount the phone to the windscreen, indeed I've done so before, the point is that I'm sufficiently unsure about the wording of the legislation that I've bought a device specifically because it fits the wording of some of the advisory information surrounding that legislation rather than because it makes a darn bit of sense in any other respect.

Does using your phone when driving include mounting it to the windscreen and using it as a GPS? Don't know. It's liable to make me a less safe driver because now, rather than using voice commands and all the extra goodies on the phone I have to find a place to pull over and interact with a touchscreen if I want to change anything, but that's just the way the law's gonna work out in this case.




FileTrekker Über Admin

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#4 2 years ago

I've literally never heard of a case where a dash or windscreen-mounted sat-nav has ever been considered as using a phone while driving, and frankly, the only technical difference between a phone and a GPS device is the fact one has mobile networking, the other does not.

I would find it very, very unlikely that any case made against someone using a dash or windscreen mounted phone would ever make it through the courts. It'd be headline news if it did.

I don't believe for a second using your phone when driving mounted to the windscreen as a GPS device is an offense. To adjust the GPS you need to safely stop the vehicle, really, and this is actually true of dedicated GPS units, too.

In reality, nobody does this.


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Lindale Forum Mod

Mister Angry Rules Guy

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#5 2 years ago

I interpret that law as actually holding the phone, and driving with one hand.


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Mikey Über Admin

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#6 2 years ago
"Lindale"I interpret that law as actually holding the phone, and driving with one hand.

This.

Local Taxis have their Phones mounted to the windows and they're employed by local government..


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Mr. Matt VIP Member

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#7 2 years ago

"Nemmerle"The point isn't so much that I can't mount the phone to the windscreen, indeed I've done so before, the point is that I'm sufficiently unsure about the wording of the legislation that I've bought a device specifically because it fits the wording of some of the advisory information surrounding that legislation rather than because it makes a darn bit of sense in any other respect.

Does using your phone when driving include mounting it to the windscreen and using it as a GPS? Don't know. It's liable to make me a less safe driver because now, rather than using voice commands and all the extra goodies on the phone I have to find a place to pull over and interact with a touchscreen if I want to change anything, but that's just the way the law's gonna work out in this case.

It's only an offence if you're physically using it. Mounting it on the windscreen as a satnav is perfectly legal, so long as you don't fiddle with it on the way.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

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#8 2 years ago

Yeah, and like all that shit would make sense to me if it's true, which it probably is, but at the same time I want the reference is what I'm saying. 'cause six points is a lot and amateur hour legal theory from people who haven't read the laws and are just going on a friend of a friend of a friend and never having seen someone get nicked for it has been known to be wrong rather often.

Heck, if you were going with never seen someone nicked for it, texting whilst driving would be perfectly legal ¬_¬

Like all those people who are all "Well, if I have to defend myself I'll just say I was scared and just reacted." As if that gets them off the hook because they weren't thinking; didn't make a choice and thus can't be responsible. Whereas the standard for self defence in this country is reasonable force in the circumstances as you believed them to be at the time. So saying, "I wasn't thinking at all and just lost my shit on his face" is one of the worst things you could do.




Mr. Matt VIP Member

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#9 2 years ago

"Nemmerle"Yeah, and like all that shit would make sense to me if it's true, which it probably is, but at the same time I want the reference is what I'm saying. 'cause six points is a lot and amateur hour legal theory from people who haven't read the laws and are just going on a friend of a friend of a friend and never having seen someone get nicked for it has been known to be wrong rather often.

Heck, if you were going with never seen someone nicked for it, texting whilst driving would be perfectly legal ¬_¬

Like all those people who are all "Well, if I have to defend myself I'll just say I was scared and just reacted." As if that gets them off the hook because they weren't thinking; didn't make a choice and thus can't be responsible. Whereas the standard for self defence in this country is reasonable force in the circumstances as you believed them to be at the time. So saying, "I wasn't thinking at all and just lost my shit on his face" is one of the worst things you could do.

I wish I had the reference, but I worked for the local rag at the time and they've changed their website since I penned the artitle in question. But trust me - mount it on your windscreen and don't touch it while you're driving, and you're safe. The law refers to operating a mobile phone whilst driving. Using it as a satnav is perfectly, 100% fine, just don't touch it while you're in control of the vehicle.




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#10 2 years ago
"Mr. Matt"...just don't touch it while you're in control of the vehicle.

Good advice ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



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