Vigilantes 14 replies

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Solace92

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13th September 2010

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#1 8 years ago

What are your thoughts on vigilantes? Vigilantes are people who take care of the bad guys that the police fail to catch. For instance, an extreme case of vigilantism would be Dexter Morgan from the TV show Dexter. It is generally frowned (illegal) upon by most law enforcement agencies. I think that it's a good thing, so long as they don't cross the line, for instance, if they make sure that whoever they are about to kill or arrest is beyond a reasonable doubt guilty first, and so long as they only kill people who committed really bad crimes like murder or rape or genocide or something along those lines. That being said, I don't know any vigilantes personally, but so long as they are doing good, I have no problem with it. If it works, it works. You know what they say, the end justifies the means.




Schofield VIP Member

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#2 8 years ago

Vigilante justice is classified as terrorism. Dexter Morgan is a good example, people are secretly grateful for what he does, even the cops, but in the end, they'd need to arrest him. Also, Dexter doesn't do it for anyone but himself.




Flash525

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14th July 2004

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#3 8 years ago

Interesting, I believe we had a thread on this some Months back now? Always nice to revise the topic though.

Solace92;5426214What are your thoughts on vigilantes?

Providing the victims of vigilantes are actually guilty of their crimes, then I think they deserve what's coming to them, and would side with the position of the vigilante. It isn't 'right' by a long shot, but if you know someone who had committed a serious crime, for the sake of an example, against someone you cared deeply for, and the Police couldn't do anything about it for whatever reason, should you feel satisfied with taking revenge yourself?

I'd say go for it. I'm not sure about globally, but here in the UK, I don't believe the Police have enough rights. People of today don't exactly fear the Police, they're more likely to laugh at them. Why? Because they know they can get away with it. The British Police are essentially pushovers, they've had so many of their 'rights' taken away from them, I'm surprised they can still do their job.

I'd personally give them more power than they've got. Give them the right to arrest troublesome youth, give them the right to carry (and use) guns, give them more general power, then maybe, just maybe, more people will think twice.

Suffice to say, if the Police can't solve a crime, and nobody else will listen, to get your desired result, there is only one person left that you can count on; yourself.




Schofield VIP Member

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#4 8 years ago
Alakazam;5426300Suffice to say, if the Police can't solve a crime, and nobody else will listen, to get your desired result, there is only one person left that you can count on; yourself.

Agreed. Sadly the police are extremely limited in what they can do.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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26th May 2003

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#5 8 years ago

What about people you just think have done bad? People someone's told you have done bad? What about people whose dog pissed on your lawn?

The system's broken but it's there for a reason. If we all go around executing people because they stepped on our idea of justice, or just because we want to - without any burden of proof or common standard - then there won't be justice for anyone.

The question to my mind is when the system becomes ineffective enough that you can justify vigilantes as simply the logical progression. When what we tend to have in common by way of values becomes more important than what we can prove to each other took place because no-one's going to do anything about what can be proved. Seems to me we're heading that way in the UK. Beat an old woman half to death and you can get away with six months; she'll be scared of leaving the house for the rest of her life. Is that justice? I don't think so.




Flash525

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#6 8 years ago

Nemmerle;5426376What about people whose dog pissed on your lawn?[/quote]Go take a piss on their lawn, let them see, then argue your case. Only seems fair. ;)

Nemmerle;5426376The system's broken but it's there for a reason. If we all go around executing people because they stepped on our idea of justice, or just because we want to - without any burden of proof or common standard - then there won't be justice for anyone.

This is where Vigilantes and the Death Sentence come in. I'm all for both, providing that there is no doubt about the guilty party.

[QUOTE=Nemmerle;5426376]Beat an old woman half to death and you can get away with six months; she'll be scared of leaving the house for the rest of her life. Is that justice? I don't think so.

This. I also don't understand (least here in the UK, I don't know about everywhere else) why they give people 'live imprisonment' when it turns out only to be 15 years. How is that 'life'?




Kilobyte

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23rd November 2002

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#7 8 years ago

Vigilantism is taking the law into one's own hands.

There are few problems with vigilantism:

1. The right to a fair trial. ---- A person should be offered the rights to defend their actions, as not all actions are meant to harm. There is also the case of mistaken identity, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

2. Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. ---- A person should not be unduly punished for their actions. Who would inflict the death penalty on a youth for pulling another youth's hair? Yet what would be an appropriate disciplinary action? Who should decide?

3. A lesson should be learned. ---- The individual that performed the act of harm against another, should learn from his/her mistake. That person may still become an upstanding member of society.

Vigilantees generally would tend towards excessive punishment. They generally approach an individual with the intent to pass judgement, and inflict harm. They rarely intend to perform a citizens arrest.




Junk angel

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#8 8 years ago

The best arguments against vigilantism are Nulla poena sine lege and nullum crimen sine lege. Also there's a reason that the judiciary and executive are two separate powers.

There's a striking difference between someone who helps someone in danger and someone who goes out of their way to seek out people who commit crimes and punishes them.

Likewise a vigilante would most likely use his or her own moral code which might in itself go against the legal code.

The vigilante sees prostitutes as immoral? Punishes them as well - just as an example.

Ergo - vigilantism in my view is bad, wrong and should not exist in a modern society.

Sure I like good oldsuperhero comics as well (batman I mean you!) but those exist in a fantasy setting.




Guest

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#9 8 years ago

Seems to me we're heading that way in the UK.




Granyaski VIP Member

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#10 8 years ago

Alakazam;5426300 I'd say go for it. I'm not sure about globally, but here in the UK, I don't believe the Police have enough rights. People of today don't exactly fear the Police, they're more likely to laugh at them. Why? Because they know they can get away with it. The British Police are essentially pushovers, they've had so many of their 'rights' taken away from them, I'm surprised they can still do their job.

I'd personally give them more power than they've got. Give them the right to arrest troublesome youth, give them the right to carry (and use) guns, give them more general power, then maybe, just maybe, more people will think twice.

I totally agree with you.

There are ALOT of people my age, older and younger who completely ignore the police and even insult them etc.

For once I would like to see some police brutality, say some chav calling a police officer a "black cunt" or "Fucking homo" or something anf just see them whale on this kid and beat the shit out of them. Would be good.

on vigilantes...I don't think I have EVER heard of one ever throughout my life, a real one that is.




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