Is it just me or is multi, screwed -1 reply

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[Bp]Mephiston

I'm too cool to Post

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21st September 2003

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#1 16 years ago

Not having had time to read through many threads i imagine this issue must have been brought up before. In short the multiplayer is unbalanced. you have ppl taking 5 others out at a time with lightining, you have crazy one hit kill katas and you have one hit ko kicks. Also in many ways, JA multi is a step back from, i daresay, jedi outcast. such things as, only one duel at a time, sabers automatically turning on in a duel, not being healed before engagin in duels, all these problems which were fixed in JO, have resurfaced in JA. While i understand that the gameplay balance issues were problably a result of a hastly put togheter server settings script, and that these little things can acutally be fixed by server admins, i dont really get why the dueling system is back to the way it was in prior jk2 1.04 versions, especially since they have had 1.5 years to develop this game (and they did not start from scratch either). Of course the argument to that is most likely: but we spent most of our time polishing the single player, and we did not have enough time to polish the multi before our august deadline.... This may be true enough, and for that matter the single player component runs quite nicely. However that does not seem completly logical considering todays "come for the Sp stay for the Mp" policy for games. I guess what im trying to say is, they did a good job on most of JA. But i wouldnt have cared too much if the game took a lil longer to come out but had been virutally problem free. oh well :rolleyes: time to wait for the patch




Bananas

A Guy with a Gun.No, Two guns.

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31st July 2003

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#2 16 years ago

Ummm....the game has only been out three days. Of course its bugged, of course its full of problems. This is an ineviatable fate for EVERY game that comes out, NO game comes out bug-free, that would be Un-human. So yeah, we are waiting for the patch, however moaning about it here isnt going to help it get here any faster.




Bretski

Cheap Shot Player

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14th July 2003

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#3 16 years ago

amen to that bananas!




NiteStryker

Biggest F-ing A-hole 2010

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24th April 2003

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#4 16 years ago

I am personally dissappointed by the multiplayer segment, something I never thought I would say. The maps are, well, if they could be improved by 50 %, they could be just a piece of cr@p. The fighting is cool, but so is the SP fighting. The saber combat is 2 wild. The server should be able to set limits on the sabers, like 'duel sabers only', etc. The Kata's are wild, and they should drain more force, not just 50. I understand that the game is in it's infancy, but wasnt this tested?




Yugiboy3000

The Internet ends at GF

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9th December 2002

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#5 16 years ago

MP shuts down on me leaving NO console with and error behind when I try to change my name in the Profile.....!!!




Turyleon

I'm too cool to Post

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4th August 2003

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#6 16 years ago

Sorry, but I think Mephiston has every right to voice his concerns, but I agree it's not going to do much in terms of expediting fixes that may or may not come (this may be intentional, frightening as it may be).

I have to agree but I would go so far as to say that Dual and Staff hugely overpower single in FFA. In a Duel setting, it's a pretty fair fight. But only because you can focus specials on one person. Dual and Staff are so fast and have multi-blades, you simply can't get even a defensive standard swing in even when the other guy is noobing it (constant swinging).

You get more than 2 people in the fray and it's nearly impossible to get any swing in, because of the one saber it gets knocked away too often (which doesn't seem to occur often at all with the other stances).

I'm a decent Jedi Outcast dueller. Translate that to Jedi Academy if I pick Dual or Staff I can easily outpace most if not all the players on the map. If I stick with single saber I literally get owned (and I hate that term).

1) Damage is screwed up royally. 2) Dual and Staff are too "newbie" friendly in that constant swinging doesn't leave you open to attack. 3) Many single stances are, again a term I hate, "nerfed" horribly.

The Yellow DFA is nearly impossible to hit and when it does hit even the strongest of hits only take around 75hps. Now in Jedi Outcast that'd be considered a great DFA. When you compare it to other moves in Jedi Academy (Butterly, Twirl, Spin, even Uppercut are all one-move kills from full health) it's pitiful.

Blue Uppercut is WAY too powerful (well over 150 damage if done right, or you get lucky).

Red DFA is absolutely HORRID. Even if you get a perfect hit (which would mean almost instant death in JO, but even there with 100 100 you still had something left) you won't get more than 50hps for the hit. Don't even get me started on the Red Kata, you're lucky to get 1, maybe 2 strikes out of hit that do *maybe* 25 damage each. Compare that to Yellow's Kata which is an instant kill move (as is Dual and Staff) and Red got shafted.

Butterfly, one of the easiest moves to pull off (like Uppercut) is more than half the time an instant kill move.

Twirl and Spin, are as easy to pull off as Uppercut (even easier since you can ACCIDENTALLY chain into them) are WAY overpowered.

So what needs to be done? Dual and Staff need to be toned way down in damage and/or speed as does single Uppercut.

The aim requirement for yellow DFA needs to be removed, wherever your saber hits should qualify as a strike just like ANY other special.

Red Kata and DFA need to beefed up.

Single handed deflect knockaways (when you hand goes off into the air for a few seconds) need to be toned way down and toned up for Staff and Dual.

Increase force cost and/or windup and wind-down times for Dual and Staff specials (less newbie friendly).

I loved the idea of being able to use either Staff or Dual in Jedi Knight, but Raven, disappointingly frelled it up royally this time around.




[Bp]Mephiston

I'm too cool to Post

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21st September 2003

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#7 16 years ago

Acutually this occured to me as i was having a session ;) :smokin:

Yea i think it was somewhat intentional. I mean you look at the movies and shit... its mostly parry, parry, parry, spin, block, twist, chop of arm and its over. Like most of the fighting does not involve anyone getting hurt and any actuall hit is decisive. If you havent noticed its really hard to hit anyone staff, dual or normal anyway, if you only use like normal swings. so if anything these instant kill things have just made the game more starwars like. As for the single saber vs. dual/staff issue well......darth maul pwned qui gon correct? (no i did not misspell owned its the 1337 way of saying it...pwned ) However having said that it would surely make sense that a yellow dfa \would be fatal, along with a red dfa. and surley kicking someone in the stomach would not be fatal. so yea they did *narf* up on something. well anyway patch time

and its burn time again for me ;) peace[INDENT][COLOR=Red]Marker0077 EDIT:[/COLOR] Edited due to profanity which is prohibited in most of GamingForums. If you want to be a potty mouth, take it to The Melee where profanity is permitted.

READ THE GAMINGFORUM RULES, they're there for a reason.[/INDENT]




SkippyTheJawa

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24th September 2003

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#8 16 years ago

Here's what I've noticed, though I'm primarily a dueler, not an FFA fighter, though let me tell you all this...I managed to tear my way through a gigantic FFA using the red saber stance, completely regardless of nerfed damage. Perhaps it was just server settings, but I was about 30 kills ahead of the second place guy, and he was at least 20 kills ahead of everyone else. In duels, I find that single is very powerful, not because of any special moves, because of its range. Once you get used visually to things like the rolling stabs, butterflies, double saber throws, staff kata, they become like the red DFA currently is in Jedi Outcast. Very situational moves. One hit kills, yes, but easy to dodge once you're used to things. The lunge damage problem is ridiculous, as is the complete uselessness of yellow and red DFAs, and red's kata. I think part of the problem is the game just counts all of these katas as one big swing or something, not multiple swings. So its like the entire damage of the kata is done in every swipe, not over the course of the whole thing. But these kata problems dont even plague single. Red has such a phenomenal reach that you can keep a distance that takes you well out of the way of almost all special retaliations. I have seen countless people start up katas as I was side-swiping them, only to find that they were hit as they were starting, and I was well and gone by the time they finished, usually killing them with a rolling stab during a less-active point in the kata. With the problems in the katas and specials aside, single doesnt really need much revamp at all. Neither does the staff, except maybe for its butterflies, which shouldnt be so reaimable, which would make them far more open to countering, as a one hit kill move should be. Instead, when you got to nail someone finishing off that attack, they suddenly spin around and as they are on their feet twirling out of the movemeny, you die. But the normal swings of these two stances are not a problem. The srandard saber has nice range, but isnt covered so well. The staff can be more damaging, but its range is extremely short, however, it keeps itself better protected as it moves in for the attack. It also spins a lot, and this is a steep disadvantage, and takes a lot of work to overcome, be it by timing spin attacks, or learning combinations that do not invoke them. The real balance issue lies in the dual saber style. It is ridiculously weak from a dueling standpoint. In a free for all. it is very easy to use its two direction stabs and double saber throw to do intense harm to enemies in an area, but in duels, these moves are awful. After some practice, anyone will be able to avoid the double saber throw when it isnt used as a counterattack, and will quickly follow up with a one hit kill rolling stab. Its jumping attack is very very difficult to use. It is often blocked, and it seems only at one specific point in the movement will it hit and do any damage at all, unlike the staff's butterfly, which basically does massive damage to anyone you touch. With careful positioning/aiming, the damage can be done, but is usually blocked by the opponent. The ducking fury of swings is deadly, but it keeps you standing completely still, and is entirely useless againstt someone biding his distance with a single saber, who will ideally, of course, follow up your movement with a one hit kill rolling stab as a counterattack (anyone else think these one hit kills off a move like that are a bit foolish?). The standard swings of the dual saber style, I'll say right now, completely and utterly suck. It is SUPPOSED to be a style designed for relentless offense thatn penetrates defenses, but instead it handles more like someone took blue stance swings, gave them some more damage, and gave them the wind up and follow through of yellow's spinning attacks. I've switched to blue in fights, and found it 10 times easier to get past blocks with it. Not only that, but it has a better range. Dual sabers do not have much of a range, and its spins leave you horribly open, and the stance in general has godawful defense. So, overview? We have a style that doesnt keep defended very well, and gets blocked deflected/parried most of the time. Top that with the fact that it slows down your movement speed (so it becomes impossible to out-maneuver the person and get in from an undefended angle), and you have a style that is worthless. In duels, I only do well or see others do well on servers with people who are obviously not as good at the game. But worst of all, is something none of you seem to notice too well at all, and I guess it is because you did not play the original jedi knight too much. This game handles lag just like jedi knight did. Fighting opponents, the hits are registered based on what the opponent has on their screen, not what you have on yours. This means that you must throw you attacks at where your opponent is GOING to be, not where he is. This of course results in a gravitation toward long, sweeping, heavy attacks throw in defensive arcs, rather than precision offense. Anyone who was very good at jedi knight will know this, the only move that ever connected well was the secondary fire double swing, because it was a long lasting move that did tons of damage, and had a good range to its sweep. So, one would have to throw this attack as long as a full second before the opponent would be where you wanted them, and offensive tactics went the way of the dinosaurs, duels were now all about who screwed up and jumped into the other guy swinging first. THIS, in my opinion, is the most GIGANTIC problem this game has. Everything else is manageable, but this will soon result it people who just sit back swinging reds, evading until they can do it again, and repeating, until you die trying to attack them. Expect things to make their way toward red's long horizontal swings if this one never gets fixed, believe me, I've done it myself, it is extremely easy, I've pulled 10/0 scores on many a round of dueling, where opponents would throw everything but the kitchen sink at me, trying to get through. Nothing worked. In Jedi Outcast, hits are registered mostly based on if you hit the guy on your screen. This is why one cannot sit on their laurels throwing reds into the wind until they catch someone trying to nail them. Someone can time the gaps in their swings, jab them, and get out. In Jedi academy, if one tries this, the best case scenario is that the shot is blocked or simply passes right through the person, because they did not remain in that spot long enough for the hit to register. The worst is of course, your hit is parried by the large red swing, and you get nailed. And believe me, red swings can hurt in this. Its strange, but they vary from pathetic to one hit kills, and these are the exact same swings I'm talking about here. I think the game scales damage massively based on where on the opponent you actually hit, which I hate, because its impossible to be that precise in this game. Overall, the only thing I really want to see fixed badly is how the game deals with lag. I want to hit what I see on my screen, not have to hit someone who is several steps ahead of that.




Vertigo

Heel commentator

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24th October 2002

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#9 16 years ago

Why is this forum so conductive to hugely long, unbroken posts? Certain people around here really need to learn some tips in presentation and structuring if they expect anyone to read their posts.




NiteStryker

Biggest F-ing A-hole 2010

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24th April 2003

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#10 16 years ago
Yugiboy3000MP shuts down on me leaving NO console with and error behind when I try to change my name in the Profile.....!!!

Your not missing anything.

I think the MP has a built in segment of realism. But, we got idiots everywhere playin the 'lets kill anyone we see, even if saber is down and chatbox is up'. And the lag is as abundent as the noobs are. I know pretty much every1 is a noob cuz the game been out a week, but we got ppl who just take the duel sabers, and keepdoin that crouch - foward blows.

Now, i first begun on Jedi Outcast multiplaer. that was my first MP gaming x-perience, so i was brought up basicially on JO multi. I know the traditions, such as dueling regulations, the various attacking rules, etc. We got ppl that dont know the old rules, and it pisses me off. I go to a server, and there is that one duel saber noob just slashing around. I cant play with those ppl, they piss me off.

But, as to my realism comment, the attacks are more parries, and few damage. The FFA's in various places are just absolute chaos, you get in there, and cant protect or see who to attack, and your dead by the swinging saber noob. We outta have servers for the Outcast veterans. The people who know how to play the game. I personally go saberstaff. Its the only weapon you have a chance of doing damage with. But the weapons dont even seem to do damage. I got single saber with red style, and i DFA'd someone. Now, in the Outcast era, that would have been a KO, and the body would fly back a bit. Now, ppl can withstand 2 DFA's. The uppercut, as stated above, does WAY to much damage.

This multiplaying for Acadamy is a dissappointment. I am glad i didnt spend $50 just on multi, or i would have wanted a refund. I will stick to single player, and if i want multi, i will go to my MC clan servers for MOHAA.




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