this whole argument is stupid, it doesn't really matter what you shoot someone with, a 9mm or a desert eagle, i could use a ****ing bow and arrow and it would still ****ing disable you
I've read the first four pages of this post and let me start by saying SpicyWaffles is as wrong as you can get and Blueberet is just as wrong and plain idiotic for continuing to go on about how a 9mm can kill you and a .50 can kill you. Yeah, can they? So can a rock I chuck at you. The point is what's more likely to stop you/kill you and obviously that's the .50.... why?
The .50 caliber shot from a desert eagle is 325 grain (measurement of mass) and travels at 1,305 f/s (velocity), the momentum is therefore 1,305 x 325 (424,125). The absolute most massive, fastest moving 9mm round is 115 grain and travels at 1,427 f/s, the momentum is therefore 1,427 x 115 (164,105). Now what's this momentum stuff? Well in ballistics they have another name for it, Stopping Power, and in ballistic theory stopping power is what has a greater chance of incacipating or killing the target. So with all this math done, which bullet is more likely to kill you? The .50 caliber. Then what do all the different types of points account for? Don't they play a factor in killing you? Actually yes, but that's already done in this formula, besides the penetration factor (higher pressure [smaller point] allows it to pierce materials better such as kevlar, walls, and such), the smaller the point (And other types designed for best aerodynamics) cuts through air better and therefore has the higher the velocity, but we already accounted for the velocity in the formula.
But what ISNT being accounted for is energy transmission and loss rate. This is where bullet shape and excess velocity can be an unwanted feature. A bullet designed for maximum speed and range will typically have a spitzer design. Its pointed. You generally dont see that in pistol rounds because for one the range expected isnt exceeding 50 meters anyway. A second reason is that with diminished power from low grain weight, low velocity projectiles, what becomes more important is bullet cross section. This is the actual strike surface of the bullet and as the human body is an elastic material, the ability to strike a target, transmit the maximum amount of that energy in as large an area as possible, and then NOT penetrate all the way trhough the target is key. Its why despite having less grain weight, and less velocity, a .45 ACP has a higher energy transmission rate then a .50 AE.
Most energy formulas assume a constant state of energy in the bullet from impact and assume that energy is entirely transmitted, this cant be the case because your average bullet will pierce trhough a person and continue on its merry way, so whats the formula for converting what energy is actually being directed to and sustained within the body, and what is being wasted on the bullet passing through the body (after 8 inches, additional penetration is neglible since the bodies elasticity makes way for the bullet, its actually cause less and less cumlative damge the deeper it goes.)...
I didn't make it!
I personally own a Desert Eagle chambered in .50AE, a CZ-85, which is one of the better double-stack 9mms, and a Kimber Stainless II, which is a nice 1911 frame .45. It's pretty much impossible to argue the Desert Eagle is effective for everyday carry. It's large and heavy, not freaking huge like people seem to think, but it's a good deal more gun than most pistols. But that's not really the big issue, I'm a pretty small guy, and I've carried it concealed all day before on a whim, it was less comfortable but not really a deal breaker. The big issues it has are overpenetration, which is a pretty big concern for a CHL gun, the ammo costs a fortune, even considering I reload it, which makes it hard to practice using it as much as other guns, and the stance you have to take to shoot it. It requires a locked wrist and elbow, allowing just your shoulders to rotate during recoil, or you increase your risk of jamming it, also brass tends to hit you in the forehead if you don't use that stance. Having to have your arms fully extended and locked when firing makes taking effective cover harder, and you don't want that. The biggest issue with the Desert Eagle though, is that it's a bitch to maintain. Requires intense cleaning after any trigger time, has to be kept pretty much soaked in CLP, not the mention all the little quirks you have to work out of it when you buy it new, and since it takes such a beating during firing, the wear parts run down faster, you have to replace the recoil springs every 3000 rounds.
With all that said, it's not entirely useless in a real world combat setting. I keep mine in my glove box, and it really outshines everything in that situation. Lots of it's flaws are negated when you are stuck in a car. Size/weight no longer matter, because you're not carrying it. The positioning and proper stance are negligible, because you're stuck in place anyways, and you have the door to support your arms, which will help a ton. And this is the only real life situation where it's extreme power might be necessary, as in all likelyhood in a self-defense situation where you're stuck in the car and having your life threatened the attacker could be in/near his own car which would provide decent cover from 9/40/45 handguns, and there's not really a way to bring a full-sized rifle out to help, whereas the .50AE gives you something of an advantage.
In the end, if you're looking for a gun to back you up in a gunfight, look elsewhere. If you're handgun hunting or shooting steel silhouettes at 200 yards or just want one because it's an interesting handgun, by all means get one, it's a blast. I just have to mention there's some, rare mind you, but some situations where having rifle power and range is needed, and you just cannot have a rifle on you in that tight spot, and only a few handguns (all of them revolvers pretty much) except the Desert Eagle that will suffice.
A car will not in ANY circumstance provide cover from a 9mm, a 40 or a 45. All three will penetrate clear through the other side. i have personally seen .40 ball pass through the FRAME of a '89 Buick. They dont make cars like that anymore so if your hoping your fiberglass panelling and aluminum frame is gonna save you...your wrong.
Maybe, it depends on the car, but my neighbor used to be an NYC cop and he always says talks about how, he'd shoot from the cover of the door and about how many shots landed on the door that would have nailed him otherwise.... so i actually highly doubt your typical 9mm will go "through and out the other side" . This is standard procedure also, so I'd imagine it's a pretty effective defense.
Look at the Hollywood robbery incident when those guys were decked out in custom kevlar. They were getting shot left and right, eating shots from 9mm like BBs. They had to get an emergency shipment of AR-15's to take them down.
Anywaaaays.. the argument was about what has more stopping power, not what you'd rather have even though the original post stated the deagle should suck in zone, like it does, which is true.
Then your cop friend is very poorly trained and will one day get himself killed In my line of work we are taught to take cover behind the only section of a vehicle that will provide actual cover, the engine compartment. any where else is HIGHLY susceptible to virtually any kind of fire.
Roaming East;5010116Then your cop friend is very poorly trained and will one day get himself killed. In my line of work we are taught to take cover behind the only section of a vehicle that will provide actual cover, the engine compartment. any where else is HIGHLY susceptible to virtually any kind of fire.
This article illustrates the same thing in much greater detail.
This has been a very educational post! I actually learned a few things here. However, I am very glad there isn't a BB gun in the game. I can't imagine what that post would be like. Marked One, You'll Shoot Your Eye Out!!!!!
I'd like to point out that this thread spans 3 years. Awesome.
Also: count how many times people threatened/offered to shoot the poster to whom they replied. Now multiply that by how many times someone mentioned being in the military or shooting many guns in their life. Divide by pi. The result is irrefutably meaningless. ;)