AI modding -1 reply

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Operative34997

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3rd June 2004

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#11 15 years ago

I've also been playing with the Attack Force, Escort Force, etc numbers. Some of the AIPs have a minimum attack force set at 1. That's where you get those stupid one ship suicide runs. I too learned the lesson of having build lists that were too long. One of my best is my Borg AIP. In my modding of the Borg, I've really streamlined their tech down. They only have one shipyard(because they only have a handful of ships) and only one research station, plus the upgrade center. My AI Borg can generally get through their build list in about 3/4 of the time it takes the other races on their best day. I actually have sympathy for the cardies when I see that first massive tactical cube rolling out of the assembly yard. lol. Sometimes I don't even play. I start a game with one base that can cloak in a corner and let 3 or 4 AI players duke it out while I'm eating a sandwich or something. It's a great show. lol. but about the escorting, I usually let the AI escort. It helps defend their freghters against attack. Which brings me to another thing I've done. In the ODFs, it has the intrinsic value. Well I'm sure you've seen it happen; A shipyard is spitting out destroyers like there's no tomorrow, and the AI just keeps blowing up the new ships as they leave the yard. It's actually quite comical. But if you set the shipyard's intrinsic value to way higher than the ships' values that it's building, the AI will simply destroy the station, thus preventing further ship construction and they can move on to bigger and better things. The same holds true of freighters and constructors. I tell the AI to target these things first because of their great importance. Also, When in battle, these are the targets that I pick. So I want the AI to be as deadly as I am. Research stations are another high value target as well as repair ships and even colony ships. That takes me back to the escorting. You can see in a situation like mine where telling the AI to escort it's critical ships is so important.

I guess I scared that guy off. I didn't really mean to do that. I guess I just come off very stern with people sometimes.




Twitch1

The Borg will rock your world!

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4th December 2003

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#12 15 years ago

I once had build lists long and you never saw the AI advance to the point where they never built their super weapon item, which sucked. I re-evaluated the whole A2 ship list. There are too many ships that duplicate efforts. The Battle 2, 2-3 destroyes and 3 cruisers is madness for the sake of having different shaped ships with minor armament differences doing the same job being built from the same yard. It creates a bottle necks unless you build more yards like AI Master has done.

One thing I've noted- Assault ships- I love the concept but only in the early stages of the game. There is a point when you have upgraded weapons and such, plus have many ships defending, to where their fire destroyes enemies before they can be captured. So it only makes sense to built 10-15 for the player. The AI is a different story perhaps.

I build a few destroyers only and usually one cruiser only after I quit making assault ships. I have replaced many ships instead of adding new ones. Since I play Borg 99% of the time I gave the destroyer a repair ship class label and use it mostly as that. I do build other races as the Borg and find myself constructing few different ships only once everybody is is in high gear. I, like the AI, just build battle wagons after a certain point. I never play less than 8 player 50K X 50K maps with the Roms as allie vs 6 races.

The intrinsic value is not even included in some ODFs! But I see shipyards at higher value (1.0) than things like destroyers at 0.25 and battleships at just 0.50. The construction ships are another story. You can wipe out an entire base and later you see that color on the mini map growing again since 1 const ship slid away and began building near its allie! I sure try to kill the constructors.

Many of the other values in the AIPs are puzzling. It takes tons of time to play through a game and see if changes you made are effective too. I had messed with that but have not in a long time. I don't see AI Master having changed much at all there. I thought that is what he was originally talking about- not build lists.

And the thing about all this is that we all have different A2s. I have battleships twice the size and lots of power that is the xbattle in most races and made the xbattle2 what the original xbattle was.= No extra ship in build list. I also have lots- 40-50 ARMED planets on a map. Half are M class which have 4000 meter photon, phaser and pulse weapons while the rest have less than 3 of these. I have heavily armed orbiters too. And so on.

I've cut build times in 1/2 for all except the Borg as my handicap. I've upped resource gathering and crew acculamation in the proper files to where an AI enemy will enlist nearly a million crew.

There is much to be gained in adjusting the sliders in pre-game set up for AI handicaps and advantages. But all this isn't intelligence. Being able to build 100 assault ships or building any ship in half the time hasn't got anything to do with being smart in tactics/strategy by using your combat resources in an innovative way. That's what I want. helicopter_firing.gif




Operative34997

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#13 15 years ago

Well, AI MAster has the right idea inasmuch that to build so many ships it does require a lot of yards. But his resource gathering to ship building ratio is way off kilter. It's situations like that which make the AI go "duh". Oh, before I forget, it's true that some ODFs do not contain intrinsic value, but remember that all ships and stations have a parent ODF file. Such as 'station.odf' or 'destroy.odf'. It's in these ODFs that you will find a default intrinsic value. Anything you enter into the ship/station's specific ODF will override what's in the parent ODF. It's true that having a lot of ships in the shipyard lineup can clog things up. I myself have about 20-23 buildable ships per race. Not for my benefit, but for the AI. You know how the stock AIPs are not exactly the same in the build lists? What I want to try to see if it works, is have each build list feature a little different set of ships. You know FedDefensive.AIP, FedOffensive.AIP, FedAggressive.AIP? If what I'm thinking holds true, that the AI reads the different AIPs under different circumstances, then concieveably, you could play the same IA game on the same map several different times and the AI would send totally different fleets at you each time. Now, the main difference between each ship is 1) Weapons and Shields obviously, 2) Each ship has a different special weapon, 3) Also, each ship has a different movement rate and attack pattern and depending on said speed and the size of the ship, is easier or harder to hit. Basically my goal is not to just have a lot of ships, but to allow the AI to randomly build a very diverse, hard to defeat armada. That's what I'm in the middle of right now. You've really wet my thirst with the idea of the 50K maps. I can't wait to implement that!




Twitch1

The Borg will rock your world!

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#14 15 years ago

You're right about the master ODFs having the intrinsic values set. I forgot. My answer to lots of ships has been to lower AI build times, speed up resources agthering and increase crew accumulation. Since it's me and the Roms vs 6 other enemies I get plenty of attacks, believe me. I will build 1000 ships and kill 2500 in an average game with about 1 million crew. Unlimited resources really turns the AI loose too.

I have found that the only add on I've done that actually affected the game to any extent was the armed planets. You have no more construction ship cruising up to your planets and building orbiters. Ships passing pretty far away get zapped. Squadrons on their way to attack a base get a couple ships killed. I didn't make then too powerful. Now you can see real outlying defense. Hordes of ships don't over run and hit home bases like before. Each start point has usually 2 M class planets with the 3 4000 meter weapons I mentioned before so when attack forces drop out of warp near them they get hit hard. Couple that with heavily armed orbitals and wiping out complete enemy bases is really tough.

The AI uses the previously unarmed planets now with weapons pretty well. Many planets have cloaks. If you cloak your orbiter you can mine unmolested- I don't have many ships with cloak detectors. The AI will not use the cloak on its own and will not fire while cloaked even though the weapons can.

I'm sure you're right about the AI adapting depending on the build list. I just don't think the standard variations were enough to notice anything big. Research on that should find something I hope.

On bigger maps- Give each start point 2 M Class planets. A 3rd L Class semi-near is good too. Use 3 dilithium resource sources relatively nearby- besides regular moons I made about 10 different looking ones for variety-- I have about 8 different asteroids with resources too.

Put 4-6 planets in the center of the map. If you build and colonize there the AI will get REALLY pissed and never cease its attacks. I don't have much in the way of heavily layered nebulas that use memory. But I'll put some of every type of planet around the map generally in equal numbers and distances from each start point/base.

A 50k X 50k map gives some breathing space. You can see attacks coming on the mini map and have some warning. They take a while to get there!

This was about my best instant action game log. These are BIG numbers:

-Score-

----- Twitch (Team 1) Borg ----- GAME POINTS 5000 MILITARY 12862800 ECONOMIC 3304803 SCIENCE 10400 TOTAL 16183003

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Klingon ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 475700 ECONOMIC 2159884 SCIENCE 1500 TOTAL 2637084

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Federation ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 461000 ECONOMIC 910899 SCIENCE 2300 TOTAL 1374199

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Federation ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 429700 ECONOMIC 2413504 SCIENCE 2300 TOTAL 2845504

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Cardassian ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 299000 ECONOMIC 5098483 SCIENCE 1700 TOTAL 5399183

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Cardassian ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 274600 ECONOMIC 3988954 SCIENCE 1700 TOTAL 4265254

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Klingon ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 146600 ECONOMIC 24174 SCIENCE 600 TOTAL 171374

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Klingon ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 1032800 ECONOMIC 3553154 SCIENCE 2300 TOTAL 4588254

--------------------------------

-Military-

----- Twitch (Team 1) Borg ----- SHIPS Killed: 5484 Lost: 1449 Ratio: 3.78 Built: 2001 Max: 441 STATIONS Killed: 210 Built: 172 Lost: 23 PLANETS Colonized: 61 Lost: 19 Max: 15 TOTAL 12862800

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Klingon ----- SHIPS Killed: 171 Lost: 803 Ratio: 0.21 Built: 860 Max: 56 STATIONS Killed: 4 Built: 42 Lost: 38 PLANETS Colonized: 4 Lost: 4 Max: 4 TOTAL 475700

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Federation ----- SHIPS Killed: 121 Lost: 1449 Ratio: 0.08 Built: 1497 Max: 81 STATIONS Killed: 5 Built: 52 Lost: 33 PLANETS Colonized: 6 Lost: 6 Max: 6 TOTAL 461000

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Federation ----- SHIPS Killed: 87 Lost: 1499 Ratio: 0.06 Built: 1533 Max: 82 STATIONS Killed: 12 Built: 57 Lost: 39 PLANETS Colonized: 6 Lost: 6 Max: 6 TOTAL 429700

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Cardassian ----- SHIPS Killed: 65 Lost: 1017 Ratio: 0.06 Built: 1081 Max: 64 STATIONS Killed: 3 Built: 46 Lost: 37 PLANETS Colonized: 7 Lost: 7 Max: 7 TOTAL 299000

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Cardassian ----- SHIPS Killed: 63 Lost: 934 Ratio: 0.07 Built: 995 Max: 60 STATIONS Killed: 2 Built: 46 Lost: 30 PLANETS Colonized: 5 Lost: 5 Max: 5 TOTAL 274600

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Klingon ----- SHIPS Killed: 44 Lost: 113 Ratio: 0.39 Built: 132 Max: 31 STATIONS Killed: 2 Built: 22 Lost: 15 PLANETS Colonized: 6 Lost: 6 Max: 4 TOTAL 146600

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Klingon ----- SHIPS Killed: 406 Lost: 992 Ratio: 0.41 Built: 1070 Max: 71 STATIONS Killed: 13 Built: 58 Lost: 46 PLANETS Colonized: 7 Lost: 7 Max: 7 TOTAL 1032800

--------------------------------

-Economy-

----- Twitch (Team 1) Borg ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 609188 Spent: 339708 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 2184484 Spent: 171423 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 1541099 Assigned: 943090 Killed: 1001401 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 3304803

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Klingon ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 209750 Spent: 134217 Bought: 0 Sold: 38600 LATINUM Gathered: 40199 Spent: 3412 METAL Gathered: 0 Spent: 135906 Bought: 119500 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 759442 Assigned: 763080 Killed: 662060 TRADE Trade Profit: 171730 TOTAL 2159884

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Federation ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 463429 Spent: 297020 Bought: 0 Sold: 133200 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 0 Spent: 83850 Bought: 66600 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 1007891 Assigned: 1011910 Killed: 613811 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 910899

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Federation ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 395447 Spent: 298277 Bought: 7700 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 1092864 Spent: 84616 Bought: 0 Sold: 538900 CREW Enlisted: 989700 Assigned: 1002190 Killed: 592847 TRADE Trade Profit: 1110 TOTAL 2413504

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Cardassian ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 520361 Spent: 157121 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 10199 Spent: 3543 METAL Gathered: 419526 Spent: 48383 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 698710 Assigned: 700300 Killed: 394568 TRADE Trade Profit: 393935 TOTAL 5098483

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Cardassian ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 364993 Spent: 147189 Bought: 0 Sold: 77400 LATINUM Gathered: 12899 Spent: 3543 METAL Gathered: 11647 Spent: 46643 Bought: 39100 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 646311 Assigned: 661720 Killed: 383827 TRADE Trade Profit: 336374 TOTAL 3988954

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Klingon ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 3642 Spent: 14087 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 149 Spent: 1525 METAL Gathered: 0 Spent: 4771 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 35416 Assigned: 50160 Killed: 34762 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 24174

----- AI Hard (Team 2) Klingon ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 219446 Spent: 170768 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 34874 Spent: 4227 METAL Gathered: 202473 Spent: 204026 Bought: 1700 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 1112176 Assigned: 1115020 Killed: 1041049 TRADE Trade Profit: 271904 TOTAL 3553154

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Kualan

Hello there...

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25th October 2008

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#15 15 years ago

I am one to amit defeat. On the other hand i had not had your 'proplems' yet and proply never will but if you feel you can be a better ai master go right.I came here to offer my services not to gloat,if you feel you can inprove my scrip go right ahead,i will also take your avice in to play and try to fix ai...but it hard get the borg are any race to build lot resource they most likely will build 5 at the same moon that ben said.Bye!:nodding:




reaper617

Only in death does duty end

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25th September 2007

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#16 15 years ago

dude, will someone help me and sherman on this AI:

// // Borg_Build_List.aip // // Contains a dezaault build list zaor the klingon AI // // edited by the Nord

// Load up the basic structures... #include "aipdef.h"

Way_Better_Build_List_Element the_build_list[MAX_ELEMENTS] = { //--------------------------------------------------------------------

// // Syntax: "ODF name", number to build, base to build at, max number from this line, min tech level //

// // Phase I. Base & Yard //

"zabase", 1,0, -1, 1, // starbase "zaconst", 1,0, -1, 0, // construction ship "zaconst", 1,0, -1, 0, // second construction ship "zascout", 1,0, -1, 0, // scout "zamining", 1,1, -1, 0, // mining stations "zaturret", 2,1, 4, -3, // basic mining dezaense "zafreight", 2,0, -1, 0, // mining zareighter - two zareighters zaor each station "zayard", 1,0, -1, 0, // basic shipyard "zadestroy", 2,0, 4, -2, // Dezaiant

// // Phase II. Research // "zaresear", 1,0, -1, 2, // basic research "zamining", 1,2, -1, 0, // second mining station "zafreight", 2,0, -1, 0, // mining freighters "zaturret", 2,2, 4, -3, // mining defense

"zacruise1", 2,0, 2, -2, // Akira "zapod1", 1,0, -1, 0, // detection array (Akira) "zacruise3", 2,0, 2, -2, // Intrepid

"zacruise1", 2,0, -1, -3, // Akira "zacruise3", 2,0, -1, -3, // Intrepid "zapod2", 1,0, -1, 0, //ion storm

"zatrading", 1,0, -1, 0, // trading station

// // Phase III. Advanced Shipyard //

"zayard2", 1,0, -1, 3, // advanced shipyard "zacruise1", 2,0, -1, -3, // Akira "zacruise3", 2,0, -1, -3, // Intrepid "zadread", 3,0, -1, -3, // Galaxy (Battleship) "zadread", 3,0, -1, -4, // Galaxy (Battleship) "zamining", 1,3, 2, 0, // third mining station "zabattle", 3,0, -1, -4, // Galaxy (Battleship)

// // Phase IV. Advanced Research // "zaconst", 1,0, -1, 0, // construction ship "zaresear2", 1,0, -1, 4, // advanced research station "zacruise2", 2,0, -1, -4, // Steamrunner (Artillery) "zaspecial", 1,0, -1, 0, // Nebula "zacruise2", 2,0, -1, -4, // Steamrunner (Artillery) "zaturret2", 3,1, -1, 0, // torpedo turret "zapod3", 1,0, -1, 0, // gravity strike "zaturret2", 3,2, -1, 0, // torpedo turret "zapod4", 1,0, -1, 0, // breen disruptor "zaturret2", 3,0, -1, 0, // torpedo turret // // Phase V. Ship Upgrade and Endgame //

"zaupgrade", 1,0, -1, 5, // ship upgrade station "zabattle", 4,0, -1, 0, // Sovereign "zasrepair", 2,0, -1, 0, // repair ship "zabattle", 4,0, -1, 0, // Sovereign "zapod5", 1,0, -1, 0, // Corbomite Reflector "zaspecial", 1,0, -1, 0, // Nebula "zabattle", 4,0, -1, 0, // Sovereign "zacruise2", 2,0, -1, 0, // Steamrunner (Artillery) "zaspecial", 1,0, -1, 0, // Nebula "zabattle", 4,0, -1, 0, // Sovereign "zacruise2", 2,0, -1, 0, // Steamrunner (Artillery) "zasrepair", 1,0, -1, 0, // repair ship

"zapod10", 1,0, -1, 0, // weapon upgrade level 2 "zapod11", 1,0, -1, 0, // shield upgrade level 2 "zapod12", 1,0, -1, 0, // engine upgrade level 2 "zapod6", 1,0, -1, 0, // Gemini Ezazaect "zabattle", 4,0, -1, 0, // Sovereign "zapod18", 1,0, -1, 0, // weapon upgrade level 3 "zapod19", 1,0, -1, 0, // shield upgrade level 3

"zabattle", 4,0, -1, 0, // Sovereign "zapod13", 1,0, -1, 0, // engine upgrade level 3 "zapod14", 1,0, -1, 0, // sensor upgrade level 2 "zapod15", 1,0, -1, 0, // sensor upgrade level 3 "zapod16", 1,0, -1, 0, // lizae support upgrade level 2 "zapod17", 1,0, -1, 0, // lizae support upgrade level 3

"zabattle", 100,0, -1, 0, // Sovereign

};

we want it to be very challenging but that is the regular build list. This race should be able to destroy my Ultra Tactical Fuson cube (it does stat wise) someone help!




Operative34997

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#17 15 years ago

One thing that will help is to know the vessel and station stats for this race and for the ultra tactical fusion. Build times are a key factor as well as resource cost and especially tech requirements. You didn't know it could get that involved did ya? lol. If you don't want to disclose them in this thread, you can PM me the stats and I'll see what I can cook up. What tech level does the cube first appear? That's also important.




reaper617

Only in death does duty end

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25th September 2007

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#18 15 years ago

WAIT A SEC!!!!! WHOS ADDING MY Omega Tactical Fusion cube to the AI????!!!!!




Major A Payne

The 6th Day

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7th August 2002

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#19 15 years ago

Hmmmm, seems everyone here who posted AIP files has overlooked one thing. The AI doesn't need to play by the rules. With any AI (considering how stupid the AI actually is), you can omit such things as the entire research table for a start. The AI still uses all forms of special weapons without them being researched (one of the reasons why the AI can build a resource collector BEFORE the mining station is actually completed).

Technically when building an AI profile for any race its more down to resource costs and availability. If you don't have certain things built then you can enable the AI to get to its higher level units before the player.




Operative34997

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#20 15 years ago

That's not exactly true about the special weapons and research. It's only that way if you're playing on Free Tech level. I know because I've tried it on standard tech. For me, it's more enjoyable to see that the AI has to go through the same "growing pains" as any human player does, like reseach and so forth so I always play on Standard Tech. But my AI does so much multi-tasking, that a human player will have a difficult time keeping up. But at least with that scenario, the AI is not "cheating" as I am fond of calling it. About the "free" freighters that the AI is able to build, the way around that is to rename all of the freighters to a different name. Rename "bfreight" to "bfreight1" or something like that. As well as renaming all of the corresponding buttons wireframes etc. to match. Then do the same with all of the races. The freighters will work the same as they always did, only now the AI has to finish it's mining station BEFORE building any freighters. I guess they've hardcoded the names of the freighters in the program, that's why the AI can't "cheat" after you change the names. Resources is definately at the top of the list for any good AIP as well. Just in the first tech level, my AI has 2 mining stations with 5 freighters each. With the Borg AIPs, I have 4 stations with 5 freighters each. They also build several turrets at each station as the resources start to roll in. In all race AIPs, the AI builds approximately 4 additional stations with freighters and turrets as the build list progresses. Incidentally, AI will decommission a mining station that is no longer needed and build another at a fresh moon or planet.