13th November 2004
Someone to make two ships. One small and scouty in nature. The other big and lumbering (obviously, you don't need to make them, it's metaphorical for what I'm looking for).
Artillery usually needs line of sight to work. In Armada 2, it was a case of, get-in-range-and-fire-big-ass-torpedoes. That's cool, but what about traditional style 'spotting'? Spotting works for anything long distance and is simply thus; an advanced unit, usually recon, will get in a position and confirm a target ready to be attacked and that's what I propose here. Whilst the tactic has been used for ages, I'm primarily taking this from CnC3 (the GDI's snipers and Juggernaut).
Anyone can do this, really. What you want first of all is to rig your small scout ship with a cloaking device, high speeds and good sensor range, but not TOO much as to throw out the entire games balance. That would suck. If you really want, give that scout absolutely no weapons, just for fun.
Now, rig your artillery ship with LONG range torpedoes (if you really want, half a map, just for effect) and speed them up, otherwise they'll take ages to hit their target. Be sure to increase the time the weapon exists for, too. Give the ship itself slow speeds, bad manuverability and poor sensors. Oh, also, some long range bombardment torpedoes. You know, the ones that make a nice boom in the enemy target.
Combine the two and you have a new game dynamic. With your scout in range of an enemy target, be it a ship or a station (or planet) you select your long-range craft and fire-away. Having multiple scout-and-artillery assortments like this can cause havoc to the enemy enabling your main task force to clean up remnants.
This is a very cool idea. Makes scouts useful again. Also makes them high priority targets for anyone with half a brain. Wish my skills were up to the task. I do have some suggestions, tho. Add this line to your spotter ship rangeScan = 1250.0f This gives the spotter a decent enough range to spot targets but it is slightly less than the LOS of a sensor platform. The upgrades will extend it out, sure but it won't unbalance the game mechanically. Tactically, it might unless someone is paying attention and uses proper dispersal techniques. Small groupings spaced well apart would work against an area bombardment. Also, I like the no offensive weapons idea but give it a special weapon like the sensor scrambler which activates automatically whenever the spotter gets fired on. No weapons, medium shields and fairly hard to hit unless the enemy is actively gunning for it. I have an alterred ODF for a Venture class scout with these specifications already. PM me if you would like a copy. it is yours to do with what you want.
13th November 2004
Why don't you make something of it? Adapt that odf and perhaps another ship on the site (I don't think any of the stock ones really fit the bill of doing what I suggest) and see if you can implement what I'm talking about.
On slower games, as in mods, this tactic could be incredibly useful.
And oh yes, I like the idea about the automatic sensor scrambler. It's easy enough to do (have it set as a standard weapon so it will fire normally, or, if it's being attacked, simply activate it but give that ship a higher special weapons rechrage rate).
This ship I think would fit the bill as an artillery ship,
Alrighty, then. I'll tinker about with it and try to get it to you sometime in the next two weeks. I would like to do so sooner, but I am a bit tied up at work trying to get two classes graduated before Thanksgiving holiday. Be warned, tho. My wireframes are really bad!:lol: Maybe something sized in between scout and destroyer? Did you have a specific race in mind or will this be adapted to everyone? I am thinking Romulan at the moment, because of my Hawk update. ADM_Icehawk's TMP Romulan Torpedo ramped up a little in range and power would make a really nice big gun. Provided I get permission, of course. The spotter should not be too hard. The Bomber I'll leave alone until I get the scout finished. I did think of some names. Velite Class for the spotter and Hastati Class for the bomber. Velites were light troops attached to a Roman Legion who scouted for the main body and also conducted skirmish operations to defend against enemy scouts. Hastati were the heavily armored, well trained soldiers who were the backbone of the legion and always provided the killing blow to the enemy army. How are we doing so far?
The Joelteon7;4013259 Now, rig your artillery ship with LONG range torpedoes (if you really want, half a map, just for effect) and speed them up, otherwise they'll take ages to hit their target.
I've actually done something like this, modifying the planet pulse phaser, fired from a spacedock-style starbase. I use it as a defensive zone operator-- any ship that comes into the zone of its sensors is automatically baked BUT the weapon's range is BEYOND that of the sensors, roughly 1 1/2 times the range. This then makes it so that any vessel of mine venturing beyond the sensors of the starbase is STILL, while within the weapon's range, protected from serious harm. This is especially useful for scouting out the enemy's marshalling points. And the range for the planet-phaser is (I think) 2500 at most, so it's not a god-weapon by any means.
The problem is that the sprite looks funky --there's no reason a phaser burst should suddenly angle away from a straight line trajectory. Especially if the targeted ship suddenly jumps away to warp.
But the concept, as you're referring to it, should be validated. I'd go a little further on the scout-- everything Thunderfoot006 mentioned, with stealth and sensor jammers and long range sensors, but with one added bonus: make it so that it's buildable FROM your artillery ship. Like a modified shuttlepod (SC-4 maybe?) deployed from the main vessel.
The problem would be one of implementation. The game's AI wouldn't be at all surprised by the presence of bursting artillery in the centre of the base. They'd rush out on straight-line trajectories for your artillery vessel and probably deal with the scout (if they even tried to deal with the problem) well after the fact.
There's also the fact that the ship's own AI would have to know NOT to fire its dread-lord-of-all torpedo payloads at targets in close range. I think you can toggle a 'minimum firing range' in the weapon's .ODF file, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Worth giving this a kick to see if it works, though....
Joelt: This is what happens when I find a free hour on my weekend.... :nodding:
If you want to give this one a kick, you'll need to download the Forerunner class, which I used as the 'guns', and the Type 9 Shuttlecraft for its 'spotter'. The Hastati class SHOULD be able to build the Velites-- I picked one of its hardpoints at random as the build point.
This is JUST the .ODF file for all you'd need to make this work. This is also withOUT playtesting-- it's just to get a base of idea to work from. I checked the Big Book on the torpedo-- no guarantee the 'attackRange' tag is a MINIMUM rather than a MAXIMUM range since, as with so much else in the Big Book, the language isn't specific enough to be certain.
So here we go. Modified Forerunner class, now called Hastati class:
unitName = "Hastati Class" tooltip = "Hastati Class" verboseTooltip = "The latest in a series of design initiatives by the Federation, the Hastati class is hoped to be a battlefield wonder for Starfleet, with its extensively ranged 'artillery' torpedoes capable of travelling half a parsec before detonating." race = "federation"
buildTime = 18.0 officerCost = 10 crewCost = 530
dilithiumCost = 400 metalCost = 100
maxHealth = 550 shieldGeneratorHitPoints = 130 enginesHitPoints = 110 weaponsHitPoints = 110 lifeSupportHitPoints = 125 sensorsHitPoints = 100 maxShields = 750 shieldRate = 8.5
maxSpecialEnergy = 1000 specialEnergyRate = 10
possibleCraftNames = "USS Hastati" "USS Trireme" "USS Quinquereme" "USS Triarius" "USS Trebuchet" "USS Catapult" "USS Ballista" "USS Conquistador" "USS Navarone" "USS Tsar Bomba" "USS Big Bertha" "USS Howitzer"
weapon1 = "fbphas" weaponHardpoints1 = "hp01" "hp14" "hp15" "hp26" "hp27" "hp31" weapon2 = "gcorbom" weaponHardpoints2 = "hp01" "hp16" "hp33" weapon3 = "bosstorp" weaponHardpoints3 = "hp28" "hp29" "hp30" "hp32"
buildItem1 = "fspotter"
buildHardpoint = "hp33"
enginesTargetHardpoints = "hp06" "hp07" "hp08" "hp09" "hp10" lifeSupportTargetHardpoints = "hp11" "hp12" "hp13" weaponsTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp14" "hp15" "hp26" "hp27" "hp28" "hp29" "hp31" "hp32" shieldGeneratorTargetHardpoints = "hp16" "hp17" "hp18" "hp19" "hp20" sensorsTargetHardpoints = "hp21" "hp22" "hp23" "hp24" "hp25" hullTargetHardpoints = "hp06" "hp08" "hp10" "hp12" "hp14" "hp16" "hp18" "hp20" "hp22" criticalTargetHardpoints = "hp07" "hp09" "hp11" "hp13" "hp17" "hp19" "hp21" "hp23"
attackPower = 1.75f intrinsicValue = 0.90f
weaponYellow = 1.0f weaponRed = 1.5f physicsFile = "superphys.odf" canAttackPlanets = 1 fireball = "xfireblg" ScaleSOD = 0.55
combat = 1 alert = 1 can_sandd = 1 shieldDelay = 5.0f rangeScan = 750.0f damagedScan = 125.0 shieldProtection = 1.0 enginesRepairTime = 0.2f lifeSupportRepairTime = 0.04f weaponsRepairTime = 0.2f shieldGeneratorRepairTime = 0.2f sensorsRepairTime = 0.2f enginesCrewLoss = 2.0f lifeSupportCrewLoss = 2.5f weaponsCrewLoss = 1.0f shieldGeneratorCrewLoss = 1.0f sensorsCrewLoss = 0.0f lifeSupportLoss = 2.0f weldingRadius = 1.0 classLabel = "shipyard" aiName = "CraftProcess" ship = 1 has_hitpoints = 1 has_crew = 1 transporter = 1 SHOW_MOVEMENT_AUTONOMY = 1 can_explore = 1 builder_ship = 1 facility = 1 alwaysRecomputeRallyPoint = 1 SHOW_SW_AUTONOMY = 1 repairFacility = 0
The modified Type 9 Shuttlecraft, Velites:
unitName = "Velites"
tooltip = "Type 9 Shuttlecraft" verboseTooltip = "A heavily modified shuttle with a cloaking device, as well as an extensive ECM suite, the Velites is used as an 'artillery spotter' reconaissance vehicle, and deployed exclusively from the Hastati class starship."
race = "federation"
buildTime = 15.0
officerCost = 3 crewCost = 10 dilithiumCost = 100
maxHealth = 500 maxShields = 1500 shieldRate = 20
maxSpecialEnergy = 2000 specialEnergyRate = 20
shieldGeneratorHitPoints = 800 enginesHitPoints = 10 weaponsHitPoints = 200 lifeSupportHitPoints = 1000 sensorsHitPoints = 600
possibleCraftNames = "Leonidas" "Hannibal" "Phidippides" "Scipio" "Pompey" "Sulla" "Marius" "Crassus" "Achilles"
weapon1 = "gsensorscram" weaponHardpoints1 = "hp01" "hp03" "hp04" "hp07" "hp08" weapon2 = "gdetectf" weaponHardpoints2 = "hp02" weapon3 = "gwcover" weaponHardpoints3 = "hp02" weapon4 = "gcloak" weaponHardpoints4 = "hp02" weapon5 = "gtracbm" weaponHardpoints5 = "hp02"
enginesTargetHardpoints = "hp05" "hp06" "hp07" "hp08" lifeSupportTargetHardpoints = "hp09" "hp10" "hp11" weaponsTargetHardpoints = "hp09" "hp10" "hp11" shieldGeneratorTargetHardpoints = "hp09" "hp10" "hp11" sensorsTargetHardpoints = "hp09" "hp10" "hp11" hullTargetHardpoints = "hp09" "hp10" "hp11" criticalTargetHardpoints = "hp09" "hp10" "hp11"
attackPower = 0.20f intrinsicValue = 0.20f
weaponYellow = 1.0f weaponRed = 2.0f
rangeScan = 1250.0f damagedScan = 350.0f ScaleSOD = 1.0
The pertinent torpedo files for the 'boss torpedo', starting with bosstorp.odf:
//Name of the ODF file for the ordinance for this weapon ordName = "bosstorpo"
//Display name for this weapon wpnName = "Boss Torpedo"
//Time Delay between shots shotDelay = 12.0f
// Range within which the weapon will fire. range = 25000.0f attackRange = 1500.0f
//Sound which is played when the weapon fires fireSound = "arffire.wav"
// Percent chance of hitting the target. //Can be applied to specific ships in format default "shipname.odf" 0.9 (this is a percentage) hitChance = 0.85
// Set the target location flag targetLocation = 1
// Set the need target flag needTarget = 0
Now the ordnance file, bosstorpo.odf:
//Programming Stuff DO NOT CHANGE classLabel = "artillery"
//The number of units which are subtracted from the Special Energy Reserve specialEnergyCost = 0
//Damage now applied by artillery shockwave //See "xartil.odf" to change damage values
//Amount of time the ordinance will exists without hitting something lifeSpan = 120.0
//How fast the shot moves shotSpeed = 450.0
// This affects the turning radius/rate somewhat unknown. omegaTurn = 0.5
// The rate at which this Torpedo accelerates. shotAccel = 170.0
//The sprite which is used for this ordinance Sprite = "wartord"
// Time to play through the animation for the sprite in seconds spriteDuration = 0.25
//this modifies the color of the ordinance (not currently working) shotColor = 227
// Size of photon torpedo. radius = 24.0f
lightColor = 0.3 0.8 0.9 lightFalloffStart = 50.0 lightFalloffRange = 5.0
//Phaser specific: this is the thickness of the beam Radius = 5.0
//The sprite which is used for this ordinance explosionSprite = "sparkball1"
// Time to play through the animation for the sprite in seconds spriteDuration = 1.0
// Set the object odf name objectName = "bossartil"
// Radius of the blast... blastRadius = 250.0f
// Radius of the blast sprite explosionSpriteRadius = 50.0f
//Sound which is played when the weapon fires fireSound = "arffire.wav"
And finally, the shockwave, bossartil.odf:
// Programming Stuff DO NOT CHANGE classLabel = "shockwavexplode"
// Rate of expansion. rate = 90
// Name of the texture. texture = "wartshok"
// Explosion sound. explSound = "nel3.wav"
color = 0.5 1.0 1.0
// Multiplier for the ship radius to get the shockwave radius. radiusFactor = 1.0
// Percentage before the shockwave starts to fade. fadeFactor = 0.2
// Number of rays in effect. rays = 16
//The base amount of damage which the ordinance does with each hit //Can be applied to specific ships in format default "shipname.odf" 0.9 (this is a number) damageBase = 320
//The amount of variance applied to the damage (i.e. 10 + or - 2) //Can be applied to specific ships in format default "shipname.odf" 0.9 (this is a number) damageVariance = 50
//The threshold which must be exceeded to cause crew casualties prior //to shield exhaustion //Can be applied to specific ships in format default "shipname.odf" 0.9 (this is a number) damageThreshold = 305
//The multiplier by which any damage which exceeds the threshold is //multiplied by to calculate the percentage of crew lost with that hit //Can be applied to specific ships in format default "shipname.odf" 0.9 (this is a multiplier) shieldCrewModifier = 0.4
//The multiplier by which any damage which is applied to the hull is //multiplied by to calculate the percentage of crew lost with that hit //Can be applied to specific ships in format default "shipname.odf" 0.9 (this is a multiplier) hullCrewModifier = 0.1
Tell me if this works for y'all or not. Took me all of an hour to whip up the .ODFs.... your mileage may vary.
These are waay better than what I have, Kid. Guess I'll have to be happy with providing the names and leave it at that. OFF TOPIC! DANGER! DANGER! Run Will Robinson! Run! Kid, I worked on that idea you PM'd me about but it never came out looking like what I am assuming you wanted which was the Sphere launching scene from ST:First Contact.
13th November 2004
Nice on Kid, now, implement it in-game and grab me some pics :p
thunderfoot006;4014477 Kid, I worked on that idea you PM'd me about but it never came out looking like what I am assuming you wanted which was the Sphere launching scene from ST:First Contact.
I'll post in my thread to reply to this, Thunderfoot006. Only fair to Joelt. ;)
The Joelteon7;4014522Nice on Kid, now, implement it in-game and grab me some pics :p
Yeah, I'll get right on that.... next weekend sometime. :nodding: