Facing A Predicament -1 reply

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Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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14th July 2004

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#1 11 years ago

Ok, so I was going over some sites yesterday, in regards to the sizes of ships within Star Trek, trying to get some idea of the sizes I'll need to put in the .odf files for Zero Hour, and came across a problem. As it stands, it is a rather big problem, and judging from Gavin's reply via MSN, he didn't quite know what to do about it either, so I figured I'd address you guys with it.

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Now, as you can see, the D'Deridex is very big, and the Defiant is very small. It doesn't even make up the nacelle of the D'Deridex, about 1/3 of it perhaps, but thats about it. Now, I would have liked to get the scaling spot on (or at least fairly close) for this project, but I'm going to have great difficulty doing so with ships as they stand. it will be hard enough seeing the smaller ships in comparison to the bigger ones from the chart, and then you introduce the Borg Cubes, you are faced with a much larger problem than you were expecting. I know that scales aren't always correct in this game, people usually get them wrong, mostly because we haven't been told the actual sizes, an example of that would be the difference between the Steamrunner, Norway & Sabre. Wherever you look, they are all different sizes, some say the Steamrunner is the smaller of the three, others say the Sabre, you can't win. However, some ships are known, yet still not put to correction. The Prometheus for example, many have this scaled to the size of a Sovereign whilst in fact, it mesures up slightly shorter than an Akira Class. Anyway, I need your help. What do I do? I can't have super-sized ships flying around the map. If when the whole project is over and done, someone decides to play as Borg with everything scaled accordingly, they'll have a job seeing the Intrepid's & Akira's, let alone the Birds of Prey & the Defiant Classes. You'll also have the problem of moving the bigger ships around (Asteroids and such), and a Cube double the size of a planet just isn't going to look right.




Freakydude

You will succumb to the Freaks

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24th August 2006

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#2 11 years ago

I think this is a problem that can only be solved sort of like starcraft. Their capital ships aka: battlecruiser and carrier were also supposed to be very big in size but Blizzard shrunk them to no less than the size of a crane if compared to a marine. You may have to do just the same. Have the smaller ships to scale as best as possible but have the super-sized capital ships just a little compressed in size while still being bigger than any other ship, as long as it's no bigger than the shipyard you're trying to build it in. ;)




The Joelteon7

The cake is a lie.There is no cake.

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13th November 2004

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#3 11 years ago
SupaStarAsh;3511110 Anyway, I need your help. What do I do? I can't have super-sized ships flying around the map. If when the whole project is over and done, someone decides to play as Borg with everything scaled accordingly, they'll have a job seeing the Intrepid's & Akira's, let alone the Birds of Prey & the Defiant Classes. You'll also have the problem of moving the bigger ships around (Asteroids and such), and a Cube double the size of a planet just isn't going to look right.

You make not being able to see the enemy ships a problem, but what is one rouge Intrepid or Defiant going to do to a Cube...nothing. It'd only be a problem when it was a mass of them, and at that point, you'd be able to see the enemy clearly. You could always have maps that had specific routes for larger ships. Eg. a gap in the asteroid that was "blown apart" by Federation forces to try and sandwich a Borg cube which had to go an alternate route, things like that. The Borg's size is only a downfall in time, they'll get to wherever they want to go, just it might take longer. I recommend making maps generally bigger. You could always increase the size of stock maps as well. How long is that going to take for each map? What, 2 minutes at max? (Load the game, change the settings, save, re-load to check then come out) I think you'll want to get scaling as close to possible. Just remember though, scaling isn't just the ships, stations and spatial phenomenon...it's weapons too. You don't want a photon torpedo that is larger than a Defiant.




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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14th July 2004

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#4 11 years ago
Freakydude;3511247Have the smaller ships to scale as best as possible but have the super-sized capital ships just a little compressed in size while still being bigger than any other ship, as long as it's no bigger than the shipyard you're trying to build it in. ;)[/quote]I can always re-scale shipyards :) And your suggestion would work. I guess there really is no other alternative.
Joelteon7;3511307You make not being able to see the enemy ships a problem, but what is one rouge Intrepid or Defiant going to do to a Cube...nothing. It'd only be a problem when it was a mass of them, and at that point, you'd be able to see the enemy clearly.[/quote]I don't think you quite understand. If you imagine a load of Defiants, Intrepid's and such in a fight with the Borg, those ships (in comparison to the Cube) will be very small. In the A2 engine, you'd have to have the Cube so you'd at least be able to see it on the screen (fully). The Intrepid's & Defiant's would be microscopic. [quote=Joelteon7;3511307]You could always have maps that had specific routes for larger ships. Eg. a gap in the asteroid that was "blown apart" by Federation forces to try and sandwich a Borg cube which had to go an alternate route, things like that. The Borg's size is only a downfall in time, they'll get to wherever they want to go, just it might take longer. I recommend making maps generally bigger.
They'd have to bloody big patches of missed asteroids, but then, you have another problem. The AI isn't very smart, thus, they'd probably try get the cubes through gaps that they couldn't possibly fit through. As they wouldn't 'think' to go around the outside. [quote=Joelteon7;3511307]I think you'll want to get scaling as close to possible. Just remember though, scaling isn't just the ships, stations and spatial phenomenon...it's weapons too. You don't want a photon torpedo that is larger than a Defiant.

Aye, this will only cause more problems, but I think I know a way around them due to how I am going to be working the Borg.




IKS

Fuck FIFA and fuck France

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15th February 2006

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#5 11 years ago

Warbird is twice the size of a galaxy.. here it's definately not.. check these out ash http://www.trekships.org/fleet-charts.htm for the Feds. AND http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/fleet-charts.htm for the rest of the muppets in the Galaxy! Hope it helps




kel333

IWL: Klingon Defense Force

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10th June 2005

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#6 11 years ago

Yeah, the Warbird's size issue is troubling. Officially, I thought it was between 1000 and 1200 meters. In the episodes, it usually looks only a little bigger than a Galaxy. Of course, there are allot of scaling discrepancies in the shows/movies. To offer a suggestion to your problem, Ash, I mostly agree with Freakydude. But Joelteon makes some good points too. Here's what I do: First, you can increase the zoom factors in the RTS file, then scale the planets up by an average of 1.5x, then scale all the medium ships accurately to each other, then scale the smaller ships up a little, then scale the larger ships down as much as is needed so they can still work in-game. Or, if that bothers you, just scale 'em the way you think best. Go with your gut. It make be weird in-game, but it should be the way you want it to be.




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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#7 11 years ago
IKS_YO_MAMA;3512294Warbird is twice the size of a galaxy.. here it's definately not.. check these out ash http://www.trekships.org/fleet-charts.htm for the Feds. AND http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/fleet-charts.htm for the rest of the muppets in the Galaxy! Hope it helps[/quote]Another site, with different ship sizes :lol: Why are no two sites exactly the same :(
kel333;3512362Yeah, the Warbird's size issue is troubling. Officially, I thought it was between 1000 and 1200 meters. In the episodes, it usually looks only a little bigger than a Galaxy. Of course, there are allot of scaling discrepancies in the shows/movies.
For the D'Deridex, it is actually suppose to be twice the size of the Galaxy (even though it never looks it). A lot of people seem to forget that it is hollow, and that the decks, and internal works of the ship would make it bigger because it hasn't got the middle. I know this isn't really a 'source of reference' but even the Star Trek 'Fact' Files state that the Warbird is twice the size of the Galaxy. [quote=kel333;3512362]Or, if that bothers you, just scale 'em the way you think best. Go with your gut. It make be weird in-game, but it should be the way you want it to be.

I think this'll be the best bet, mess around with them until I get them looking how I want them. Even so, there is going to be a problem with the Defiant vs. Cube, regardless of how I have everything else.




IKS

Fuck FIFA and fuck France

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#8 11 years ago

I know there are plenty of sites out there to have a gawk at but in all fairness Ash - Bernt Schneider's http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/fleet-charts.htm is very accurate! Look through his site, he has webpages upon webpages to back up his charts!




Majestic-MSFC

Majestic is thy Name!

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#9 11 years ago

Scaling is a pain, I am going to have the same problem with Parallels. An example is with the Earth Alliance. The Olympus corvette is 444 meters while the Omega destroyer/battleship is 1714 meters and then the Starfury fighter is only 9.56 meters. In the end scaling in Armada can not be as accurate as some of us would like including myself. Its a bumber. I also agree with IKS_Yo_Mama, Bernt Schneider's site is one of the best out there. There is also another one out there but I have forgotten its name, but that site mainly deals with cross show scaling, which is quite handly for me but not so much for you.




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#10 11 years ago

In my main project (believe it or not KA2 is just a refresh lesson for me, Elite:Frontier Wars will be my real finale piece) I have a similar scalling problem, on an even larger scale perhaps (if you pardon the pun)

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