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Freyr VIP Member

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#41 7 years ago

rifraf;5637608I couldn't find any errors. I had just copied the Romulan build_list to the defensive_list and added a couple of turrets to the build.

Something else I've noticed is that after changing some values in the hard_aggressive, hard_defensive and hard_exploration AIP's oddities appear. Like the Klingon AI as about 4-5 freighters sitting around a dilithium moon and only one is mining. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, odd isin't it? I think the klingon AI may be using freighters to guard other freighters, had you messed around with the guard settings?

As you are discovering you can get some serious weirdness with AI's. Look on the bright side though, at this point your the number two expert on AI's in the community. =p

rifraf;5637608Should I restart my computer after altering files in depth?

No need. No changes are made to system files, only to text files that the Armada engine uses so all you need to do is restart A2.

I had another instance where the Romulans wouldn't build their yard2 on a certain map. Could that be due to there not being enoug room or something?

It could have been, but ultimately you need to use the AI debugging display to actually find out why the AI isin't building it because otherwise you'll be guessing forever.




rifraf

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#42 7 years ago

It is fun messing with the AI and seeing what happens. I think I did add a resource_force parameter from the example AI to mine and maybe that's why the freighters congregate around a moon and sit there? I'll have to play with it more.

I think I probably should have starting messing with the AI on a stock build instead of using my in progress personal mod. Would have certainly limited extra problems and such since I added more ships and increased build times/resource amounts required. Did you do all your AI testing on a stock game with stock build lists Freyr or did you change your build lists so they would be a little better?

A few of the AI parameters I'm not sure what they do so would have been nice to have an AI definition file. LOL




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#43 7 years ago

my AI testing is done on a separate stable install. It's sort of stock; it's a stable install of the next (and near certainly never to be completed) version of the Upgrade Project.

However, apart from the better looks it plays the same as stock. Build lists have been changed, but ultimately the build list only tells the AI what to build. The personality controls how the AI employs the forces that you build for it.

I suspect that the freighter thing with the kingons will be because the klingon freighters have weapons, and the AI is using freighters to "guard" the dilithium moons. I don't know for certain that this is what the issue is; it's just an educated guess. Try using a different race and see if they still do it, that might deal with the issue. If so, remove the weapons from the klingon non combat ships, they are utterly useless anyway.




rifraf

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#44 7 years ago

In looking at the differences between the a2_aggressive and a2_hard_aggressive AIP's they left a few things out of the harder one like:

int max_danger_raw_bonus = 10; int max_threat_raw_bonus = 10; int threat_proximity_modifier = 10;

Wouldn't putting those paramaters into the hard_aggressive.aip actually make it more aggressive?

Does anyone know what the definition of "int explorationFailurePenalty = 50000;" is? I mean, what's the penalty extracted for not exploring?

I was also thinking about the eval and exec paramaters. I would think it'd be better to eval alot of options like int MAX_EVAL_ATTACK_BASE = 50; so you have lots of options to chose from but then only attack a couple, like int MAX_EXEC_ATTACK_BASE = 5; or so instead of 10 or 20. That way you're only attacking a couple of locations at any one time, concentrating your fleet and the AI is not spreading their forces around too thinly. Am I on the right track with that thinking?




rifraf

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#45 7 years ago

Well I deleted all weapons from const, colony and freighter ships and that seemed to stop the congregating around moons. They all keep mining. Great tip Freyr.

In watching the game how that AI acts still puzzles me. I used the debugging tool but couldn't figure how to watch other teams until I browsed through the input.map. Will have to try another game as it only showed what I was doing. The Feds and Cards were getting beaten but they still had a constructor and several dilith miners and also at least one metal mining station each. They had to be massing large amounts of dilith and metal but they wouldn't rebuild their destroyed shipyards or anything else. It's like the game wouldn't trigger them to get out of the defensive list and start building again? My defensive lists are not too different from the other build lists, just more defenses but it's like once they are getting beat they just stop building anything and keep mining forever? It's facinating how it works but it doesn't seem to be working correctly? Maybe my changes in the AIP's have thrown it all out of whack?




rifraf

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#46 7 years ago

Update: I guess I'm about done with the bulk of the AI changes. I suppose I'll now be constantly tweaking the settings to fine tune them but I'm happy with how much better it plays for the most part. Ships come in fleets over and over which is nice. As soon as I attack an enemy asset, they respond with reinforcements as well. I'm not sure if I tweaked something too much but so far in several games none of the AI enter the defensive list. Everyone remains in the hard_aggressive and endgame_buildlist which is fine as maybe the AI hasn't been pushed back far enough to warranty the defensive stance?

I don't feel I really made any drastic changes from stock. It's like the programmers were on the right track but stopped just short at game release. I changed all the priority parameters to fall in the guidelines of values from -99999 to 99999 which they didn't and gave it more eval and attack options. I hope Freyr, that you release your next gen AI's one of these days to see what you come up with. :) You've been a great help and I'll probably still pick yer brain.




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#47 7 years ago

I think the biggest thing that the developers screwed up was setting the number of targets the AI could consider so be so low. Otherwise, as you say it's mostly tweaks across the board to get the AI to play more intelligently.

The other major issue is the build list. That's the big killer, since if the AI doesn't build the right stuff then it's useless.

I'm glad you found my knowlege useful, however it's worth pointing out that your knowledge with the AI is now near mine, and you are the communities number two expert on AI scripting now. (unless someone has quietly figured it all out without anything but my tutorials and never released anything, in which case you could be number three =p)




rifraf

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#48 7 years ago

I'm tweaking my build lists again as well. I see how you advocate building only a small amount of different ship types over and over which would make the AI harder but I like to see some ship type variety so I have to find that balance to make it difficult while using some not necessarily useful ships. I've modded my resource costs and ship strengths some to cost more/be more powerful so my AI would take forever while building mostly battleships.

I'm testing different specials on lower end ships to make them more useful while keeping the number of specials low since most are fairly dumb in my opinion. I feel behind the times as I know most people have already done all these things. :)