lets make this ONE community again. -1 reply

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DarkEnergy

a basin of water

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12th April 2006

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#1 10 years ago

lets make this community one community again. as ist seems with KA2 we have a 2v2 staff situation here as well as a split one judging from the visitors remarks. as it seems, a lot of this people just don't understand what has happened. freyrs "i am so sick of this" without explaining doesn't help. banning ppl saying the same by the other admins without explaining doesn't help. but explaining is the only way to make ppl understand.

i just want to avoid a tell tale process. so would someone with more knowledge than me please step forwards and explain? i have my opinion about this - but i am sure the community would like to know about the background. and its not my cup of tea.




Majestic-MSFC

Majestic is thy Name!

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2nd April 2006

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#2 10 years ago

Speaking as a Admin of another site there are times when the behind the scenes activities are not needed to go public, as it can in fact escalate the problem and make matters worse. In most cases members only need to know that the staff have taken all views into consideration as well as all the facts and approached the matter from a neutral standpoint and made the best decision they can. Well thats enough of that from me, I trust Freyr's handling of the situation as I have never found any of his decisions to be unjustified and would no doubt be something I would do if I was in his shoes. As for uniting the community I am all for it and think it is needed after the recent events.




StarBlade

www.starbase34.net

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7th January 2006

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#3 10 years ago

I hope you don't mind if I take issue with your remarks here, ameba.

ameba;4367477lets make this community one community again.

As I said at Project ACOM, this entire incident has proven just how unified our community is in the face of adversity. Majestic's team, Pille's team, and our team all reacted exactly the same way, one escalation at a time, without anyone resorting to arbitrary action contrary to the spirit of either our regulations or our principles. I consider this a huge improvement over some online communities --modding-related and others-- to which I've had the distinct ill pleasure of belonging.

as ist seems with KA2 we have a 2v2 staff situation here

What makes you say so? TParis, Freyr, thunderfoot006 and I all feel exactly the same on the situation: what's done is done, and it's unfortunate we were compelled to have to take the actions we did, but here we are. Now we're moving on. As one staff.

I'm also proud to say that my contacts at MSFC and ACOM know that both message boards have my complete support in their respective stands. We at A2Files were simply the last ones compelled to make such a stand-- but we have before, and if needed, we will again.

as well as a split one judging from the visitors remarks.

People will always have divergent opinions. That's not something we can help. Ask any of the moderators here or at any A2 community site: we are not in the business of enforcing perspective, of moderating opinions, or of administrating people's thoughts. We are here to regulate conduct within the boundaries of mutual respect and common decency. Each set of visitor's remarks will be dealt with using the same equal and fair standards as anyone else's. And where the offense is, well, call us down on it. It's what we're here for.

as it seems, a lot of this people just don't understand what has happened. freyrs "i am so sick of this" without explaining doesn't help.

Can you blame Freyr for feeling that way? For once the guy tells the community how he feels instead of simply setting the tone AND the standard for public discussion. We're all "sick of" KA2-related drama. I was within minutes of resigning and walking away on several occasions this past weekend, but you know why I didn't? Because people are sick of drama. Because this community is not about me. It's about Star Trek: Armada II. Anyone who loses sight of that fact should seriously reconsider their continued participation in this community.

banning ppl saying the same by the other admins without explaining doesn't help. but explaining is the only way to make ppl understand.

I'll indulge you in a small re-telling in a moment, but before I do, let me clarify why it will be limited in detail, and restricted in scope.

We can't explain everything without storytelling. Believe me, it's not because we have a vested interest in hiding the story from the community. It's because there are heroes in this community who would prefer that their efforts remain safely anonymous. And I'm one of them. If I came on and started telling how much I've done over the past three days to keep things from coming apart, then Majestic would have to do the same --and Syf --and Pille --and so forth down to everyone. I don't think it's fair to members of this community who want to move on to drag the whole story out in the open and risk re-opening old wounds.

And frankly, I think we need to move past KA2. For the past eight months, it's been the Britney Spears of A2 mods. At this point, we need to realize that giving so much attention to any one mod only comes at the expense of others that are equally worth our time.

Commenting on individuals involved, furthermore, is something I am going to discourage. I do not want ANYONE to feel they have a right to pass judgment on anyone else. The re-telling of a story can sometimes lead to those kinds of judgments, and I think the admins and moderators all over this community did an excellent job of dealing with each other and reinforcing the community standards. That's the bottom line.

i just want to avoid a tell tale process.

As do I. Because if I tell you everything, you can never trust me again. Some things are given to the admins and mods, in confidence, and that's not a process anyone wants to endanger in the name of truth-seeking. Private messages need to be respected, and much of what went on did so within that sphere, at all sites.

so would someone with more knowledge than me please step forwards and explain?

Here's what I can tell you. And this is as much as I'm willing to say.

Majestic found issue with supporting MSFC. So he withdrew support this past week after Project ACOM began hosting the KA2 1.1 mod.

I downloaded the mod, as did thunderfoot006. We were impressed with it, but being a nut for physics files, thunderfoot006 checked out some of Starfox1701's truly funky physics for KA2 and found a couple files left over from SquireJames' testing with our physics project. This was a complete accident, and SquireJames admitted as much, then set about re-compiling the KA2 1.1 installer.

It was around this time that Pille withdrew his support for KA2 1.1, having already removed the mod from public download due to our stated credit issue. This is standard procedure for ANY mod-- need I remind you of issues on this very subject regarding some of mishkaco's recent work, which were quickly resolved by active moderator interest (in other words, because I screwed it the hell up in the first place).

However, this left SquireJames in a bit of a squeeze since he had previously refused to allow FileFront hosting of KA2, and no other prominent sites (ACOM, MSFC) were willing to support KA2 1.1 any longer. Their reasons for withdrawing their support are their own, and are not open for speculation in this forum.

As I understand it, presently KA2 is being hosted on someone's personal space, but A2Files has not yet received any specifics about how to download the mod. Further, as the mod isn't supported by any prominent sites, tech support and correction of known issues isn't likely to happen. Nor is there any word on the eventual release of any further progress on this mod, because of what followed next.

That being done, private messages were exchanged further on the subject, and SquireJames felt threatened personally and physically by one of them, and alleged that he would have to leave the community as a result. As far as I know, the investigation remains open, and thus the KA2 thread remains locked. Further comments on an open investigation are obviously irresponsible, and that's as far as I'm willing to comment on that.

Now, obviously, I don't know everything --and I welcome correction on the above story should people "in the know" wish to do so, but ONLY BY PRIVATE MESSAGE. I'll then make the edits where I see fit.

i have my opinion about this - but i am sure the community would like to know about the background.

While I welcome discussion on the subject, I must caution you and everyone that comments on the subject of people's character or conduct WILL be considered to be actionable.

I do not want anyone to call into question the command decisions made by site admins and/or moderators in this thread. Don't even try it or I'll have this thread and any others like it locked --and then the only discussion you'll be having with anyone about it will be where I can't see it.

Further, SquireJames has suffered enough for his work --and has certainly created enough ill will, whether inadvertently or maliciously. We're not here to judge him. As I said, I'm indulging ameba's pursuit of this inquiry SOLELY to bring this issue to a close. Anything out of line and that close will be sooner than people might like.

and its not my cup of tea.

It's not mine either, but in the name of sealing this issue firmly shut, here we are.

For my part in this whole affair, I'm sorry --deeply sorry-- that there are people who feel divided from the greater A2 community. This whole series of incidents left me feeling cheated, robbed, of my love for modding this video game, and as I said, my equal love of seeing to it that this community continues to thrive and remain active.

I spent a lot of this weekend feeling like this entire sequence of events was because of my action, or inaction-- that I had failed. Thus, we are discussing a seriously sensitive issue for me.

I'm putting myself out here in this thread because, well, because I was given the opportunity as "someone in the know". Trust me, kids -- "in the know" is the last place y'all wanna find yourselves after stuff like this happens.

:cool:




rodglas

Model of a Modern MajorGeneral

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5th September 2006

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#4 10 years ago

Thanks, thats more info then anyone else has been willing to give out. I really do think that best way to heal is to give everyone the best possible info, not the whole story, but enough to keep specualtion and bad feelings to a minimum. Rod




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#5 10 years ago

err I don't want to be the cause of any continued issues or what not, so in all honesty I'm looking for some moderator guidance, should I post the few screenshots I have or should I just let this go... because several people have expressed interest to me but it all seems kind of like I'd be reminding people of the controversy. So if I could get some guidance both in an official capacity and also personal opinion-wise I'd appreciate it. I'm not a pic master like Jetfreak, so I'm afriad they aren't very good in positioning etc. but they do give an idea of what it looked like. *shrugs* Normally I'd be more decisive about this myslef, but with everyone's feelings on the matter coming into play, and well I'm just kinda bummed out by everything not working out that I'm not sure I'd be thinking too clearly. As always, all help is greatly appreciated. Oh by the way where the heck would I post them anyway?




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#6 10 years ago

Look I didn't do all that work so it could sit in a vault forever. Put them in the screenshot thread please! Think of it as an Irish wake for the mod;)




StarBlade

www.starbase34.net

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7th January 2006

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#7 10 years ago

Honestly? I'd love to see them submitted as a news item on the main site. Just so we can say, "this is what it would've been, if only...."

Screenshot thread (as suggested above by starfox) is also an idea. Remember, nobody sees anything wrong with people playing or enjoying KA2. It's not a supported mod, but that doesn't mean it needs to be put in a box and never seen again.

:cool:




DarkEnergy

a basin of water

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12th April 2006

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#8 10 years ago

first of all: thanks, kid, for sharing some of the info and for your point of view. if I was wrong about the situation with the admins, well, i am eased that what i feared has not happened.

second, i rest my case. the more the community knows and can read about, the better for all involved. your -actually quite long:nodding:- remarks clearly showed a leitmotif and some time flow in this mess. i didn't understand your posting as having issues with my remarks - i just found it very, very helpful for all of us. just have a look at rods posting.

now. lets all have more than one :beer:




Freyr VIP Member

A2Files Staff

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6th February 2005

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#9 10 years ago

ameba;4367477i just want to avoid a tell tale process. so would someone with more knowledge than me please step forwards and explain? i have my opinion about this - but i am sure the community would like to know about the background. and its not my cup of tea.[/quote]

Majest;4367513Speaking as a Admin of another site there are times when the behind the scenes activities are not needed to go public, as it can in fact escalate the problem and make matters worse. In most cases members only need to know that the staff have taken all views into consideration as well as all the facts and approached the matter from a neutral standpoint and made the best decision they can. Well thats enough of that from me, I trust Freyr's handling of the situation as I have never found any of his decisions to be unjustified and would no doubt be something I would do if I was in his shoes. As for uniting the community I am all for it and think it is needed after the recent events.[/quote]

As Majestic says, behind the scenes activities are best left there.

As for bringing the community together, we certainly have done. Far from being widely divided all the sites are united for the same reasons, and personally I fully and completely agree with the decisions of Majestic and his staff under what has certainly been a most difficult time for us, and likewise with Pille and ACOM.

[quote=the Starfleet Kid;4367518]What makes you say so? TParis, Freyr, thunderfoot006 and I all feel exactly the same on the situation: what's done is done, and it's unfortunate we were compelled to have to take the actions we did, but here we are. Now we're moving on. As one staff.

And in case anybody is wondering, the only reason Joel's not listed there is because he's on holiday at the moment. =p

if I tell you everything, you can never trust me again. Some things are given to the admins and mods, in confidence, and that's not a process anyone wants to endanger in the name of truth-seeking. Private messages need to be respected, and much of what went on did so within that sphere, at all sites.

As the kid says, If we told everybody everything (which is something I have been sorely tempted to do on a couple of occasions since christmas) then people would hesitate to discuss things with us in private for fear that it would become public. People know that when they send me a PM or email it will remain confidential.

Here's what I can tell you. And this is as much as I'm willing to say.

Majestic found issue with supporting MSFC. So he withdrew support this past week after Project ACOM began hosting the KA2 1.1 mod.

I downloaded the mod, as did thunderfoot006. We were impressed with it, but being a nut for physics files, thunderfoot006 checked out some of Starfox1701's truly funky physics for KA2 and found a couple files left over from SquireJames' testing with our physics project. This was a complete accident, and SquireJames admitted as much, then set about re-compiling the KA2 1.1 installer.

It was around this time that Pille withdrew his support for KA2 1.1, having already removed the mod from public download due to our stated credit issue. This is standard procedure for ANY mod-- need I remind you of issues on this very subject regarding some of mishkaco's recent work, which were quickly resolved by active moderator interest (in other words, because I screwed it the hell up in the first place).

However, this left SquireJames in a bit of a squeeze since he had previously refused to allow FileFront hosting of KA2, and no other prominent sites (ACOM, MSFC) were willing to support KA2 1.1 any longer. Their reasons for withdrawing their support are their own, and are not open for speculation in this forum.

As I understand it, presently KA2 is being hosted on someone's personal space, but A2Files has not yet received any specifics about how to download the mod. Further, as the mod isn't supported by any prominent sites, tech support and correction of known issues isn't likely to happen. Nor is there any word on the eventual release of any further progress on this mod, because of what followed next.

That being done, private messages were exchanged further on the subject, and SquireJames felt threatened personally and physically by one of them, and alleged that he would have to leave the community as a result. As far as I know, the investigation remains open, and thus the KA2 thread remains locked. Further comments on an open investigation are obviously irresponsible, and that's as far as I'm willing to comment on that.

Now, obviously, I don't know everything --and I welcome correction on the above story should people "in the know" wish to do so, but ONLY BY PRIVATE MESSAGE. I'll then make the edits where I see fit.

As so far as I understand the investigation is now closed. When I requested the thread to be closed the chap that got to it first was FFCB. Thats Charlie Brown of the Filefront Management. The filefront management have been getting involved a little more with the goings on of the network recently, and having Charlie around the network is great.

Anyway, he closed the thread as I had requested, having looked through it. As his message says, given that Squire made a serious allegation, (namely that his family had been threatened) he investigated the situation. It is not said explicitly, however I infer from the thread on the matter in the internal that squire admitted that no such threat had been made. Seeing as a copy of the "threat" is sitting in my inbox I know nothing of the sort was said.

Charlie has banned him permanently from A2files, and this forum which is separately managed. Obviously, Charlie banned him not me, but I completely agree with this. Its a matter of public record that Squire received a warning which he disregarded and a weeks comment ban for ignoring a warning and continuing arguing on the comments of a recent news item . He also received a final warning after he moved over to the forum and continued pushing boundries, testing our patience. I cautioned him that he was subject to the same rules as everybody else, and should we have to deal with further violations of the site rules he faced being banned permanently.

He obviously didn't listen.

While I welcome discussion on the subject, I must caution you and everyone that comments on the subject of people's character or conduct WILL be considered to be actionable.

Everything I have said above is easily obtainable from various threads and comments on the site and people would put two and two together in the end, so there is little point in me not saying anything. However, please listen to what the kid said. This is merely done so that this unfortunate chapter in the history of A2 is brought to a close.

I do not want anyone to call into question the command decisions made by site admins and/or moderators in this thread. Don't even try it or I'll have this thread and any others like it locked --and then the only discussion you'll be having with anyone about it will be where I can't see it.

Further, SquireJames has suffered enough for his work --and has certainly created enough ill will, whether inadvertently or maliciously. We're not here to judge him. As I said, I'm indulging ameba's pursuit of this inquiry SOLELY to bring this issue to a close. Anything out of line and that close will be sooner than people might like.

Absolutely. We do believe in freedom of speech, which is why this conversation is taking place. However, if this goes beyond acceptable limits then this will end quite abruptly.

I'm putting myself out here in this thread because, well, because I was given the opportunity as "someone in the know". Trust me, kids -- "in the know" is the last place y'all wanna find yourselves after stuff like this happens.

:cool:

Or when its happening, but yeah.

[quote=Chief_Chainsaw;4367931]err I don't want to be the cause of any continued issues or what not, so in all honesty I'm looking for some moderator guidance, should I post the few screenshots I have or should I just let this go... because several people have expressed interest to me but it all seems kind of like I'd be reminding people of the controversy. So if I could get some guidance both in an official capacity and also personal opinion-wise I'd appreciate it. I'm not a pic master like Jetfreak, so I'm afriad they aren't very good in positioning etc. but they do give an idea of what it looked like. *shrugs* Normally I'd be more decisive about this myslef, but with everyone's feelings on the matter coming into play, and well I'm just kinda bummed out by everything not working out that I'm not sure I'd be thinking too clearly. As always, all help is greatly appreciated. Oh by the way where the heck would I post them anyway?

Feel free to post anything you like about KA2. Pictures, movies, fan fics, whatever. You can post them wherever you like, we have the best screenshots thread, or you could create you own. You can submit them as POTD's etc.




Jetfreak

The Real Awesome

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20th April 2007

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#10 10 years ago
Chief_Chainsaw;4367931 I'm not a pic master like Jetfreak, so I'm afriad they aren't very good in positioning etc. but they do give an idea of what it looked like. *shrugs*[/quote] [quote=Freyr;4368034]Feel free to post anything you like about KA2. Pictures, movies, fan fics, whatever.

Too bad I didn't get to download the mod in time. So no pics from me.




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