Hypocritical News:( -1 reply

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The.Grand.Nagus

*Can't Touch This*

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#1 10 years ago

Here is the latest news update: Starfleet Command III, Starfleet Command III Downloads - Permissions....Get Them, or the files get pulled! In a nutshell, it says that if you dont get permission from the person who made the mod, your file will be deleted. However, the truth is that no one who makes a model based on one of Paramount's ships gets THEIR permission, so according to the logic of the person who wrote the news article, all of those ships should be deleted. However, common practice for people who make models based on Paramount's ships is simply to give Paramount credit. Yet, those same people(or at least the person who wrote the news article) has a double standard when it comes to THEIR work. While they are perfectly fine using using someone ELSE's IP without their permission, they require that anyone who wants to use theirs ask them. The point of this post is to first of all point out the hypocrisy of the double standard, and secondly to call for uniformity. Either it is OK to use someone else's work as long as you give them credit, or it is not. If it is NOT, then every ship that has been made based on Paramount's work has to be deleted. If it IS ok, then any mod that uses someone elses ships should not be pulled as long as it gives credit to the person who made it. Not allowing response to the news article only shows that the person who wrote it is afraid of being questioned. Deleting this thread without responding to the point raised only proves that it is true.




yochenhsieh

Maker of SFC3: Rexpansion

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#2 10 years ago

The policy of permissions exists everywhere in the modding community, whether sfc, bc, or armada.

[Bridge commander] Master permissions thread-Attention modelers

[Armada] Armada Fleet Command Forums-viewtopic-The Permissions Thread (returned)........

[Starfleet Command] Permissions (Remake) - Sticky this in favor of old.

This is not something that you can question, it is the rule.




The.Grand.Nagus

*Can't Touch This*

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#3 10 years ago
yochenhsieh;4595750The policy of permissions exists everywhere in the modding community, whether sfc, bc, or armada. This is not something that you can question, it is the rule.

You completely missed the point. Its OBVIOUSLY a rule, no one is questioning that. The point is it is hypocritical. If the people who are making the ships do not ask Paramount for permission(and simply give them credit), why are they upset if somoene does the same thing with their work? Basicly, they think it is fine to use someone else's work without their permission themselves, but that it is not ok for someone else to do it.




IKS

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#4 10 years ago
The.Grand.Nagus;4596152You completely missed the point. Its OBVIOUSLY a rule, no one is questioning that. The point is it is hypocritical. If the people who are making the ships do not ask Paramount for permission(and simply give them credit), why are they upset if somoene does the same thing with their work? Basicly, they think it is fine to use someone else's work without their permission themselves, but that it is not ok for someone else to do it.

Its jus tthe way things are Nagus.. Think of it like honor among modders. Its not legal infact nothing the modding communities do is legal per say but its just a way to keep star trek gaming relations above board.

Legacy has very stringent policies too - STLegacyFiles.com - Permissions for Mod Conversions/Updates

I guess its all relative, just be a nice guy and ask to use someone's work first. Paramount don't get a tinker's toss about the fans of the franchise so why are we getting caught up about them?




The.Grand.Nagus

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#5 10 years ago
IKS;4596231Its jus tthe way things are Nagus.. Think of it like honor among modders.

a hypocritical "honor" system? lol :rolleyes:




IKS

Fuck FIFA and fuck France

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#6 10 years ago
The.Grand.Nagus;4596625a hypocritical "honor" system? lol :rolleyes:

Whats hypocritical about it? You haven't fully explained your point..Please do so. Those ships do not belong to paramount.. for instance the Akira Class design belongs to Alex Jaeger not Paramount




The.Grand.Nagus

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#7 10 years ago
IKS;4596716Whats hypocritical about it? You haven't fully explained your point..Please do so. Those ships do not belong to paramount.. for instance the Akira Class design belongs to Alex Jaeger not Paramount

The point is, anyone who has made a ship based on something that has been on a tv series or movie did not ask the person who created it for their permission. Therefore, it is hypocritical for them(the modder) to demand that someone who wants to use their ship get permission. I simply said Paramount to represent the owner of all the ships we have seen in ST.




IKS

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#8 10 years ago
The.Grand.Nagus;4596921The point is, anyone who has made a ship based on something that has been on a tv series or movie did not ask the person who created it for their permission. Therefore, it is hypocritical for them(the modder) to demand that someone who wants to use their ship get permission. I simply said Paramount to represent the owner of ST.

I see what you are saying but I think you are looking at it way too black and white. If I make a brand new ship, a totally new design and convert its format to that of Star Trek: Starfleetcommand3 and place it up here.its still my design..The game is only a medium by which I am displaying my designs and my work. Paramount have nothing got to do with the design or distribution of that model. If someone comes along and decides to use that design they must ask me the designer and creator of that specific model. I don't know where you think I should get the permission from paramount to design and release my model. I think your point is a bit skewed.




The.Grand.Nagus

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#9 10 years ago
IKS;4596937I see what you are saying but I think you are looking at it way too black and white. If I make a brand new ship, a totally new design and convert its format to that of Star Trek: Starfleetcommand3 and place it up here.its still my design..The game is only a medium by which I am displaying my designs and my work. Paramount have nothing got to do with the design or distribution of that model. If someone comes along and decides to use that design they must ask me the designer and creator of that specific model. I don't know where you think I should get the permission from paramount to design and release my model. I think your point is a bit skewed.

I agree with you completely...on totaly original designs. However, I am specificly talking about ships based on ships in the shows. Anyone who creates a Galaxy class(for example) without the permission of Paramount(or whoever the individual working for them that invented it is, if they still have the rights to their IP) cannot demand that anyone who wants to use their model get their permission. At least, not without being a hypocrite. Now that the discussion has come this far, I will give you my reason for posting this thread: I created a mod using several people's ships, and gave every single one of them credit. However, the mod was deleted because I did not get those people's permission. In fact, the very person who deleted it was involved in the making of the Premonition model I used in my mod. However, since that person did not get the permission of the Premonition's makers to MAKE a Premonition model, he is a hypocrite for demanding I get his permission to use his ship. You may say it would be better to just get his permission and move on with it, but I am not the kind of person that goes along with something I dont agree with, nor do I plan on kissing up to people who are hypocrites just because they happen to be in positions of power.




IKS

Fuck FIFA and fuck France

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#10 10 years ago

The.Grand.Nagus;4597006However, I am specificly talking about ships based on ships in the shows. Anyone who creates a Galaxy class(for example) without the permission of Paramount(or whoever the individual working for them that invented it is, if they still have the rights to their IP) cannot demand that anyone who wants to use their model get their permission. At least, not without being a hypocrite. [/quote]

Yes I see your point there. It is a good point. (I just felt you were not being specific enough hence I was getting mixed up about your point). A person should not claim ownership rights to a design that is already in ownership of someone else.

The.Grand.Nagus;4597006 You may say it would be better to just get his permission and move on with it, but I am not the kind of person that goes along with something I dont agree with, nor do I plan on kissing up to people who are hypocrites just because they happen to be in positions of power.

Ah I see. See here is where the tricky bit is. If a ship that you used says in the readme "You may use this ship once you provide credit" then its fine, but if the author wants you to get permission from them then do so. Most modders who want to grant permission want to do so in order for the modder in question to keep track of what is happening with their models. Not so they can have someone beg them for their model.

I know where you are coming from but why not just send an email to the original author? ask for permission, its not that difficult. I mean why not do so?

If you are so against asking someone can you use the work they have done then you have other alternatives

  1. Don't use the ship
  2. Build the ship yourself

I know I might come across as a smartarse for the above mentioned options but that is truthfully your alternatives.

What I don't agree with you is this statement [quote=The.Grand.Nagus;4597006] In fact, the very person who deleted it was involved in the making of the Premonition model I used in my mod. However, since that person did not get the permission of the Premonition's makers to MAKE a Premonition model, he is a hypocrite for demanding I get his permission to use his ship.

Not really. See I know that ship and I know its a brand new model not a port. Its based on the Premonition from Armada. The author should have provided credit to Mad Doc for the Premonition's design and concept.

Oh and the readme is not correct because this work is a derivative of the Premonition Class and the Creative Commons Licenses do not cover works protected by other licenses, i.e the Premonition.

But that is beside the point. Get permission if needed, if not then don't use it. Forget about hypocrisy, most modding anf gaming communities are hypocritical anyways.