17th June 2002
Recently, my clan, |DB| (you might not have heard of us, we're more like the honor police than competition players - y'know, keeping the lamers at bay), conducted a small-scale study. We know how we treat new players - if we see them laming, we make sure they know not to, and we take them aside to help them with their skill. But, we didn't know how they were treated outside out gaze.
I, and several other members, tried 10 servers, named only as Padawan, with Kyle and a blue saber. We tried best we could to remember how we played back on the 1st day :). The boss agreed that we shouldn't be pointing fingers, so all the servers and players involved will be kept quiet, good or bad. However, 7 servers were clan-based, the rest the 3 major UK corporate servers (with admin).
It didn't seem to be going well. The first 2 server - and surprisingly they were clan servers - kicked me off, simply because of my name. No, thats not an assumption, the messages I saw before I'd even clicked 'Join' were along the lines of 'not another noob'. Two other clan members tried again the next day - the same servers - and recieved similar responses.
Another clan server. Admin encouraged all the players to target me. As part of the cover, I couldn't use skills beyond hack-and-slash to defend ourselves, and we were trashed. Though this didn't happen the next day, with other players, it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
The last troublesome clan server used their admin powers (slap, sleep) to torment me.
Thankfully, the rest of the clan servers treated me with far more respect than I'd ever seen before. They offered duels, and obviously held themselves back to boost my confidence. They tried to teach me some moves (I was a fast learner, obviously - I felt kind of bad lying to them, but if some major clan can use the information to their advantage and maintain JK2 its worthwhile), and made sure they let me win once or twice. One server, when their players left, suggested a better place to learn.
The corporate server admin simply aren't allowed to kick people because they are new. However, they made sure they humiliated me. Took quite a lot of 'Jedi restraint' to keep my cover. On occasion, I refuse a duel (y'know, shake head), to see their response, on all the servers. The clan servers I talked about as being respectable offered help by telling me how to do it. The admin on the corporate servers didn't. When they saw that I was either refusing or stuck, they immediately attacked me with a few combos. They also saw that I was being attacked - armed or unarmed - and did nothing, and one of the corporate servers had rules against attacking the unarmed.
With so many people complaining that JK2 community is dying, it really shocked us to see how the newbies were being treated online. Its no surprise that we're not seeing any new regulars online. They're just too afraid to come back after their treatment. While the majority of clan servers are very good (and I'm surprised that even one of those weren't - the worst belonged to a particularly well-known and usually respected clan), it is of no consequence. Most newbies will head for the lowest pinged, and a name they know, like a corporate name, rather than a server with a name they can't even read ;). And if they're tormented like we were, I doubt they'd progess to a clan server.
Again, I stress that even if directly requested, we will not deal out information on the people involved. We don't believe in tarnishing other's names. However, on behalf of my clan, and most other players out there, I say this: if you're so concerned about the JK2 community dying out, don't drive new players away. Help them, make them feel welcome, teach them. Just don't try your best to annoy and humiliate them. If they lame, don't kick them around and say 'stupid noob'. Many don't understand the more gentlemanly rules of JK2 over its FPS rivals (e.g. Quake 3). They think its a free-for-all, and you kill. Make sure they know that some servers don't like that, and most players definitely don't. I'm sure the people I'm talking about know who they are. If you don't start welcoming new players, and old players loose interest because there are no new players, then you're assisting a community to die. Feel free, everyone, to talk about your experiences. It might help enlighten some of the more hostile players out there. If anyone reads this thread, that is, lol. Any new players reading this, don't be disheatened by the results of our little experiment. There are a few good places out there, most obviously the Jedi Academy. Just don't take offense to people treating you like that. Its like a kid pulling the legs of a daddy long legs. One day a bee will come along and sting them, and they'll have an allegic reaction. So long as you realise that is not an example for you to follow, they're at fault. When you've gotten a bit more practise, you should go back and explain that to them :cool:.
yes i agreed with y they sometimes treated me bad cuz when i first joined JK2 games on line... they attacked me w/ saber down and kick me down and grip, zapped, push, pull, and drained force on me for no reason... your speech re great... you brought me to knee before you... i didnt have guts to said that to them i fear they will humilated me.... thx for yr speech y lifted my hopes up!
u make a really good point i have noticed that no knew players have come onto my clan's server, but there is the occasion when expirenced players come on a server with the padawan name just to piss the other players off. For example im assuming a little kid came onto my clan's server last night and started laming, we tried to tell him to stop and teach him, but then we relized he was just tryin to annoy us. So we kicked him and he came back with the name "SCREW YOU, YOUR ALL FRENCH!"<--- thus explanes y i thought he was a little kid like 8 or 9. He kept coming back the whole night woth a different name every time, most of them were insulting the admin that kicked him. People like thes are what are making people less tolerant to people that are just to lazy to change their name or are noobs
You are right Matt. Padawans are new to a complex game with tough players. Your survey was very informative. While I do think that's part of JK2's dying, I think another part is the fact the JK3, which seems to be a major improvement over JK2, is being released this fall.
17th June 2002
Hmm, yeah, I just read up on JK3, it sounds pretty good, though JK2 was dwindling a long time before JK3 was announced, or even the JK2 addon.
And yes, those people who join as Padawans just to annoy. I've seen plenty, but they're easy to spot. Several people almost rumbled me. Experienced players tend to fight more fluidly, even if mimicking a generic newbie. Lol, it took me some time to practise how to ****-up a lunge :S. But yes, I hope those people realise what they could be doing to the community; some people get quite irrate and take it out on all padawans. In fact, I've even noticed that people who simply don't have a colored name seem to be challenged more than those who do. Perhaps the knowledge of color codes makes you more skilled or something in their eyes, I don't know. And hopefully those people who simply can't be bothered to change their name will read this. We really need to cut the newbies some slack while they learn. The least the admin could do is not make assumptions on the name Padawan (e.g. kicking before they've even joined).
Glad you all found our little experiment of some interest, even though we couldn't give you exact information. Especially glad it perked up a few new players. We were going to get one of our female members to go out into the open world without their tags and see what happens to them, apparently some female players experience difficulties, but I think thats a whole different ballgame. Anyway, I might put up our results on some of the larger forums, maybe spread the word.
P.S. If you're having problems, Padawans, I'd recommend you do what I did when I was new. Load up a multiplayer map in SP (MP bots are, lets face it, rubbish). Type 'map ffa_bespin' in the console, if you're unsure. (Console access is Shift + ` (` being the one next to 1 and above Tab)). Set your force level if you want (activate cheats first - 'helpusobi 1'. Then type 'setforceall 3'). Spawn in a bot, e.g. type 'npc spawn reborn'. There are many different NPCs of varying skill levels which will help you practice. You might want to play against a few bots (multiplayer is slightly different, but the same principles apply) to get your feet wet. And remember, change your name. Other than changing the mind-set of the admins and players out there (nie on impossible), thats the only way I can think of stopping Padawan persecution. Add some color, even better (e.g., to make the name Padawan red, type '^1Padwan' into the name box on player options - try out different numbers, 1-7, for different colors. I think that 0 is black, but doesn't work on the name, just chat). Of course, I'm in doubt as to whether many brand new Padawans ever visit a forum first-hand, so all this writing I've just done may go to waste. But if you've already experienced life as a MP Padawan, this may be of some help to you. When you're ready, suggest you jump into a clan server rather than a corporate server, they're generally much better in terms of rules - though bear in mind they don't loose out if they do decide to annoy you.
(Other enemy NPC Dark Jedi, in order of difficulty, are 'reborn', 'rebornforceuser', 'rebornacrobat', 'rebornfencer', 'rebornboss', 'shadowtrooper', 'shadowtrooper2' (Not sure if there's a difference between shadowtrooper 1 and 2), 'tavion', and 'desann'. Progress through the ranks. In my opinion, when you can take out a couple of shadowtroopers at once without loosing health, you're in the money - get online and practise).
P.P.S. Sorry for another essay :)
I completely understand what you're saying, Matt. I've played online a few times and the behavior and treatment of other people is appalling. That's why I no longer play that way. I prefer playing against bots; not only for the fun of it, but for practice. And as for the clans; well I don't see myself joining any. I'm just an average player and I don't want the headache of having to be required to do certain things to keep the clan up and running. Sometimes its great being independent. As for some of you who think this game is losing people and interest is waning, well I for one thoroughly enjoy playing it and will for a long time to come. And Matt, you would make a great Jedi because you seem able to control your "primal instincts." To that I give you a hell of a lot of credit and respect. May the Force be with you all.
ic your point BUT i think that the ppl who r to afraid to come back just because some ppl where meen to them online (plus the fact that they prollie likve 100 miles away) must be some pretty sensitive ppl. i would just finish sp and play but i would put up a newbie thing er something.
I don't think JK2's dying or that treating newbies poorly is the problem, almost EVERYONE multiplayer game will have newbies and experts and the asshole experts will treat them badly, doesn't affect the game in anyway other than some hurt egos.
yes practice with bots sounds great i m doing lot of free time by training w/ bots and to tell you truth i m ok-ok but not really good fighter... i need training from someone that s why many stupid admin kicked me out and beat me up for no reason... one way i join the game is to learn how to fight well and learn how to help each other... it s my style to helping them out... i have helped them with admin console codes several times... when i come in game and started using console... then admin said "YOU DONT SUPPOSED TO USE THAT! YOU ARE THE CHEATER!" then admin called up the vote and everyone vote then here i am... kicked out of the game... y know it s sad experience...
well stupid admins are just stupid 12 year olds, I wouldn't join that server anymore, try playing clan servers, they usually have good admins