I stand corrected :cort: I take back what I posted earlier. Having watched this movie a second time I noticed that the Federation ships are in fact using more advanced version of the ENT phased cannons. It came to me when the U.S.S. Kelvin launched all her shuttles for evacuation and the Narada were targeting them with those projectiles of theirs and they were being intecepted by red particle beams, I realized then that sometimes it's more tacticaly sound to break up the particle beam into rapid sucessions to attain maximum phaser yield potential when the target is a bit further away(very realistic indeed :nodding: ). My hat's off to you J.J. Abrams and the rest of the production staff, This has got to be the best Star Trek movie I have ever seen....truly a historical point in our times. :beaming:
My major problem with this movie is what the Kid mentioned above: Now J.J. and his company can rewrite everything whit this simple idea of Nero's time travel. We can forget about continuing the original timeline, or even anything about real Trek. Why should they bother to find out new characters? They only have to use Roddenberry's characters and give under them a new universe and a new ship. Personally, I hate this attitude. It looks like I'm alone with this one, but this movie seems blasphemy to me. Yes, it was nice, it was full with action, but that's all. I could't feel for a moment that feeling,like when I saw the other movies. It isn't original any more but some kind of redo of a great forerunner.
By the way there are things which make this movie unable to fit into the "canon" Star Trek history. 1. Ambassador Spok's ship tells the stardate in EARTH YEARS! Although we know that stardate is not based on Earthian years and it should contain six digits (like Stardate 43680.3). 2. When you go back in time, you can change the timeline only from the point you arrived. This means that Nero could change the time only from 2233 (Kirk's birthday). This means that the mainstream of the Federation ship construction style was already definied. At least two more than Warp 5-capable starhsips, the NX and the Daedalus Classes were entered in (and also removed from) service, but probably several other classes like Saladin, Surya/Coventry, etc. But if you look on USS Kelvin's design (especially of the interior), it's totally different from its predecessors. Different phaser array system, different computer system (looks more modern, than the Sovereign!). It also says that it contained - if I remember correctly - 800 members of crew - about the same as the Sovereign! But the propulsion system is totally different, and especially the interior design of the whole ship. It looks like a submarine... The Kelvin was definitely designed and constructed before Nero could interfere the timeline, but I can't see any reson, why should be the construction of the Kelvin so different. 3. Let's say that the Kelvin was only a project, an experiment. Why affected its destruction the whole Federation? It should only affect those, who lost their families there, but not the style of the communicators, tricorders, uniforms, phasers etc. It shouldn't affect the construction stlye of the starships etc-etc.
I didn't make it!
I just returned from my second viewing of the film. Which I enjoyed much more than the first. Unlike a lot of you, I am old enough I watched TOS episodes in their original airing on NBC back in the Sixties. Yes I really am that old, 47 as of February this year. I hear and see people speaking for and against this ship style or that type of communicator or how the timeline could be this or that, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
Have we become so tied up in the minitutae of Star Trek we cannot remember what attracted us to it in the first place?
It has been well established I like some discontent and dissension now and again. To borrow a phrase, "Here it comes."
The TNG/DS9/VOY story line has been written into a corner for a long whiles now. Nowhere to go which doesn't take the Borg or the Dominion or 8472 along with. There is a line in one of the TNG crew movies where Jean-Luc is getting ready for some sort of ambassadorial function. During the prep, he turns to one of Ent-E's command crew and says, "Remember when we used to be explorers?" Gene Rodddenberry wrote the Oganian Peace Treaty episode specifically to prevent Star Trek from turning into Space Combat. He wanted Star Trek to be about exploring. But not what you think. He wanted Star Trek to be a means for us to explore the Human Condition.
It ain't about the damn ship at all, Y'all. It's about us Humans. When we quote chapter and verse from someplace like IAmReallyGeekyAboutSciFiDotCom, talking about how big a ship is or how many seconds it takes to reload the Photon Torpedo tubes after a burst fire event, we are kinda missing the point. And I am getting rather tired of hearing that damnable word "canon" thrown about when discussing Star Trek. Someone comes along and places the Commicator badge on the right front of the uniform instead of the left front, then everything else they do is crap as well, right?
Taking this idea of keeping Star Trek Simon pure and not deviating one micron from canon to its logical conclusion means none of us should be here or even playing any game remotely based upon Star Trek. Every single mod, pic, discussion, and idea here is not 'Canon', is it? But somehow we cannot simply sit back and enjoy someone else's story based in a genre we know all too well without nitpicking. I see and hear far too much nitpicking about what part of the movie wasn't right or how JJ Abrams 'messed up' this or that. Same sort of people three years ago (and it always seems to be the same sort of people complaining publicly, does it not?) were nitpicking about there being no new Star Trek movie or series coming out. This same sort of person is usually the first person to complain about having nothing at all to complain about.
You have your opinion about the movie, I have mine. I liked it. A lot. There, I said it. All your carrying on in public about 'canon this' or 'timeline that' carries no weight at all with me. I find it tiresome and boring. Free your mind and really look at the spirit of Star Trek, not how fast a Klingon Model 33 Negh'Var Disruptor from a Season Four episode should fire. JJ Abrams played a little loose with some of the facts. For those of you whom are not paying attention, this is called "artistic license". Same thing you do when you change one of your Starfleet ship textures from bone white to dove grey because you like it better that way.
The only way he would have been forced to listen to you about the script and everything else was if you bankrolled the whole project up front. And this is really why you're upset about the film. Because JJ Abrams did not check with you to make sure he got it correct according to your view of what Star Trek should be before he made the movie.
I have been a committed, serious Star Trek fan since before most of you were born. Abrams captured the spirit of TOS dead on. The script emphasized all the things I've always enjoyed most about the relationship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. One of my most treasured Star Trek possessions is a copy of the original Technical Manual. If we're gonna argue in public about what is and is not 'canon', I fully intend to take the ridiculously foolish position of saying if Franz Joseph and the original production team did not make or draw it, then it isn't canon. Which means everything here at A2Files is blasphemy and should be wiped out immediately. Everything. All of it.
Makes me sound like a big fool, doesn't it? If you are willing to argue publicly with a fool, what does that say about you to everyone else listening? I understand you didn't like the film. I get it. But foaming at the mouth in here about how bad it was or what they did wrong or got incorrect has spoiled the movie for other people whom have not yet seen it. Thank you for sucking all the fun out of Star Trek for someone else. You did a fine job, too.
I wrote it. I meant it. And before you reply to my little missive skip up and re read the part about arguing with a fool in public.
It wasn’t a great film, but it sure wasn’t a bad one either. The black hole gig wasn’t very believable, but the rest of the film gave the allure that this version of Star Trek could happen, meaning that there was much more realism and a happy mix of technology and average day things we see every day, especially planet side. By far the best Trek flick I have ever seen. I had the pleasure of watching this on an IMAX screen and it was mind-blowing. I can’t wait for number 2!
thunderfoot006;4891989One of my most treasured Star Trek possessions is a copy of the original Technical Manual. If we're gonna argue in public about what is and is not 'canon', I fully intend to take the ridiculously foolish position of saying if Franz Joseph and the original production team did not make or draw it, then it isn't canon.
Owning a slightly younger 20th-anniversary reprint of that same technical manual, I can tell you that Franz Joseph Schnaubelt was not part of the original production team, he was just a fan like the rest of us. Matt Jefferies, Gene Coon and the other members of the original series production team had no real involvement in the making of the Star Fleet Technical Manual; however, the SFTM led to the creation of the Star Fleet Battles series of games; they in turn led to the creation of the Starfleet Command series and, subsequently, to our beloved Armada series.
While certain images of the SFTM worked their way into the canon backwards (by appearing as ship diagrams in early motion pictures after their original publication), the SFTM is largely considered to have been superseded by later canon. For its time, however, it was the best there was in Trek fandom, and I don't think we'd be here typing at each other about it otherwise.
Not that I want to further push the issue of what is and isn't in the canon, of course. As you rightly pointed out, nothing in Armada should be taken as canon, precisely because the spirit of Star Trek is in no way served by us pointing and clicking and shooting at each other. The soaring ambition of the spacefaring endeavour, and the pursuit of the continued evolution of the human spirit, are the true subject of the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. These are to be celebrated, as they comprise its first, best destiny. Anything else is a waste of material.
Thunderfoot showed another point against the movie - although I respect his opinion and I don't want to convince him. Why was this film great/average/just-above-poor? Definitely not because it's an original film. We saw everything before: Sulu's sword, the monsters of the ice planet came from Star Wars, the new phaser style and torpedoes from BSG (phaser barrage to destroy torpedoes? WTF?!) etc. It wasn't because of the characters either. The major experience was to see the well known characters to see in a totally different situation from usual.
By the way, everyone here knows that there are no "canon" star trek PC games, but playing an RTS and watching movies/reading books, which tell us the story is totally different.
I don't see the Red Matter-black hole thing ever happening nor being realistic, but to me that's a part of what sci-fi encompasses - things that are quite unrealistic.
The Narada had "Scimitar" written all over it, and its huge size and advanced technology should have easily been able to destroy the entire Federation starfleet of the time. But the team is contracted (from what I've heard) for two movies so killing them off might not have been wise.
Kirk meeting the elder Spock (Spock Prime) on Delta Vega just by chance was even more unrealistic than the black hole device thing, if just by a slight amount. The Kelvin having 800 crew is brought up a lot. The Enterprise being perhaps twice the size or more than it should be is yet one more issue. Obviously this alternate reality was inspired by the Enterprise-E "First Contact" scenario, since the ships seem a lot more powerful than they would be otherwise. For one, I've never seen a TNG-era ship, let alone a TOS- or pre-TOS-era ship have that much firepower, fired in rapid succession! Something else obviously happened in this alternate timeline to inspire all of these premature advances. Obviously the timeline of Star Trek 2009 was an alternate timeline or reality even before the Narada arrived! This new Enterprise could literally take on the Enterprise-E or the Scimitar, or perhaps a Borg Cube, and likely with ease the way it looks!
In this new reality, I'm pretty sure the Borg aren't going to stand much of a chance...they'll bring one ship to Wolf 359 and take one look at the garrison and the Borg will say, "um...let's quietly get out of here...at maximum warp!!!" If the Federation has ships like this in the 2250's, then the Klingons have certainly got to be packing!